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Community Update #13 - October 23th 2021


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Noice.

So looking at the current frost cards in the game that directly apply ice shields, their abilities are just named ice shield (frost sorceress, ice shield tower, area ice shield, shield building).

Other effects do something more than just apply an ice shield to another unit/units/building (winter witch, avatar of frost, mountaineer, warden's sigil, ice guardian) and therefore have a different name.

If this spell applies an ice shield once to a group of units then the abilities should be called blessed ice shield and tainted ice shield so that it's consistent with the rest of the game.

Edited by AVinc
specifying that I'm talking about frost cards
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Name: Skyborn Aegis
Ability: Tainted/Blessed Preservation

The primary name i wanted to keep something similar/simple to ice shield but make it sound more t4/better. The first word i wanted something relating it to frost but not so simple as frost so i eventually came up with skyborn because frost itself was born of the winds and mists which reside mostly in the sky. Then i was staring at the artwork gif a lot and was like omg that also works super good with all of the elves in the picture. Then for the second word i wanted shield but something cooler and considered ward but obvi that would overlap with ward of the north so then i settled on aegis because nothing has that in its primary name and it also sounds cool. 

For the ability name i wanted something like protection or shield but not so generic so i eventually landed between preservation and providence. While i personally think that providence fits better by definition i eventually chose preservation because it has a better ring to it and its meaning is more widely known.

Overall i think it would be a great fit and also provides a solid short name of aegis for the spell whereas something that had say shield in it might overlap with area ice shield. 

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Wow this spell looks super cool (pun intended) and uber great job on the artwork i love it. I've been wanting to see better skyelf participation in frost since i made my first skyelf deck in 09 and found out that theyre mainly supporters T_T but seeing them positioned for defence around that castle looks epic. I like to think while the commanders and templars are fighting in the air the barrier is being projected by a ritual of the sages within the castle. The building reminds me of a stronghold but also maybe with a kind of shrine of martyrs on the left side. The mountain also looks interesting because i cant quite tell if it is is the way the snowfalls or if there is something in the front of it either a huge winged creature or maybe theres a big cave entrance, I also think it could be cool like maybe this is one of the last bastions in the timeline where the lost took over from empire. The swords in the foreground really make me wonder though like the middle one looks like a warlord sword and the others look like maybe vigil swords but at the same time warlords would be huge and vigils would be in the air, maybe in the future there will be another lost unit with a sword (or maybe im just forgetting one lol).

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My opinion on the promo cards:

Firstly it should really be twilight or lost (or even amii) because theyre the factions without a promo yet. Deathray is definitely out because shadow already has three promos. I like skyelf but they already have t4 promo and it would make sense if they had a promo at t3 or t1 (plenty of great options imo) so id say shes out too. Manawing imo is also out because its just going make even more strong the various manawing strats at t1 which really need to be balanced against anyways. This leaves fire. Personally id vote for moloch because A it would look cooler than sunderer and B would provide parity with frost vs construct.

Edited by JarodDempsey
the submit didnt work so i pressed it a ton and then refreshed to find that it had posted my reply like 20 times lmao
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On 10/24/2021 at 9:47 AM, AVinc said:

Noice.

So looking at the current frost cards in the game that directly apply ice shields, their abilities are just named ice shield (frost sorceress, ice shield tower, area ice shield, shield building).

Other effects do something more than just apply an ice shield to another unit/units/building (winter witch, avatar of frost, mountaineer, warden's sigil, ice guardian) and therefore have a different name.

If this spell applies an ice shield once to a group of units then the abilities should be called blessed ice shield and tainted ice shield so that it's consistent with the rest of the game.

Firstly i think this reasoning is pretty subjective and not very strong. Shield building is practically the same as avatars shield and ww and yet building falls in a different category. Plus ice guardians shield is really similar to the new purple affin without a building so they should be in the same category. 

Secondly this new spell has nonstatic shields. The blue one for sure can grow and the purple one degrades overtime. Judging by wording and context a combo with ice age or ww or even area ice shield should  strengthen the shield. These are different than all of the cards in your "ice shield" category (except the similarity between guardian and purple shield as ive already mentioned).

Thirdly if they would choose to go this route (which i hope not bc it is boring calling every thing ice shield) then the whole system should be completely standardized similar to heals vs regens wherein the shield aspect should be separated out from any additional aspects.

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On 10/23/2021 at 7:26 AM, Cocofang said:

Name: Immortal Bastion
Ability: Tainted/Blessed Last Stand

An "Immortal Bastion" sounds like something that peak-frost could achieve. The entire faction is about longevity and tankiness, so the apex of that is obviously becoming undying in battle through the use of overwhelming shielding power. Every unit affected becomes a moving, immortal bastion by itself. The spell should have an imposing name. A coat is soft and comfy. Protection is caring. Frost however is cold, mighty and insurmountable. It does not pamper, it creates beings that can withstand anything like an ancient glacier. Something infused with the essence of frost cannot die. Not because it is actually immortal or is able to revive. No, because it becomes such an indestructible presence that any weaponry known to god, giant or men just shatters on contact.

I like where youre coming from with relation to frosts theme (though some of your assertions about i disagree with) however the main thing i take issue with here is that it doesnt really fit with the actual card effect. I dont disagree that the art could work for this name but the effect is neither a bastion nor immortality. Dont get me wrong im not 100% a stickler about bastion only being used on immobile targets as it is technically and historically used in the context of a fortification (or even a movable building) however the usage with a generally mobile being is fairly weak. Furthermore ice shields make their targets far from immortal. 2500 ehp is nice but it's is outclassed by anything stronger than a 33% damage reduction on a 5000 hp t4 unit, i dont think the word immortal in a primary name should be spent on such an effect. 

All of that said i think such a name would be a great fit for when stronghold gets building unity. 😉

Edited by JarodDempsey
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7 hours ago, JarodDempsey said:

My opinion on the promo cards:

Firstly it should really be twilight or lost (or even amii) because theyre the factions without a promo yet. Deathray is definitely out because shadow already has three promos. I like skyelf but they already have t4 promo and it would make sense if they had a promo at t3 or t1 (plenty of great options imo) so id say shes out too. Manawing imo is also out because its just going make even more strong the various manawing strats at t1 which really need to be balanced against anyways. This leaves fire. Personally id vote for moloch because A it would look cooler than sunderer and B would provide parity with frost vs construct.

As mentioned in the text, for our new promo we are restricted to the artwork we already have. We did not have fitting Twilight or Lost Souls art available. 

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Since this question has come up a couple of times already:

Regarding the deadline for voiceline applications: I dont have a strict deadline, but I plan to go over the voicelines we have received in 1 to 2 weeks. Depending on the quality and number of applications, I will move forward with the ones who are a fit for the full script. If other people apply after that (who sound great), we will see what we can do for other cards and/or future voiceacting. 

Thank you to everyone who has applied so far 🙂 

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11 hours ago, JarodDempsey said:

Firstly i think this reasoning is pretty subjective and not very strong. Shield building is practically the same as avatars shield and ww and yet building falls in a different category. Plus ice guardians shield is really similar to the new purple affin without a building so they should be in the same category. 

Secondly this new spell has nonstatic shields. The blue one for sure can grow and the purple one degrades overtime. Judging by wording and context a combo with ice age or ww or even area ice shield should  strengthen the shield. These are different than all of the cards in your "ice shield" category (except the similarity between guardian and purple shield as ive already mentioned).

Thirdly if they would choose to go this route (which i hope not bc it is boring calling every thing ice shield) then the whole system should be completely standardized similar to heals vs regens wherein the shield aspect should be separated out from any additional aspects.

Shield building applies an ice shield 3x times on a building with a 7 second delay on the second and third. Avatar spawns with an ice shield on himself that permanently refreshes, which is not applied from an external source.

Winter witch does not directly apply an ice shield, she casts (summons) an aura at a location and then the aura applies ice shields in it's area.

The ice shield on ice guardian is part of the card itself, not applied by another card and has more properties to it than just decaying by 100/sec.

The 'non-static' part is covered by 'blessed' and 'tainted'. The 'sure can grow' comment can just be stated as starting capacity - 1800, max capacity - 2500.

I would like to reply to your third comment; however, I'm not going to try to guess exatly what you meant to say in that vague statement.

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On a sidenote, if you're going to call something 'pretty subjective and not very strong' you could at least bother to read or understand the card effects that you're using as part of your counter-argument.

Also afaik (not 100% sure) ice shields just replace each other , so using other ice shields on the new one should just apply them over it.

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12 hours ago, JarodDempsey said:

Firstly i think this reasoning is pretty subjective and not very strong.

The goal of asking for cardnames is to get a pool of cool candidates for the patreons to choose from. Everyone should feel encouraged to share their card and effect-names without the risk of getting into an argument to defend their preference. Please refrain from calling people out if you disagree with their name-suggestion, everyone has their own opinion. I dont want this comment section to turn into a big argument. 

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15 hours ago, JarodDempsey said:

I like where youre coming from with relation to frosts theme (though some of your assertions about i disagree with) however the main thing i take issue with here is that it doesnt really fit with the actual card effect. I dont disagree that the art could work for this name but the effect is neither a bastion nor immortality. Dont get me wrong im not 100% a stickler about bastion only being used on immobile targets as it is technically and historically used in the context of a fortification (or even a movable building) however the usage with a generally mobile being is fairly weak. Furthermore ice shields make their targets far from immortal. 2500 ehp is nice but it's is outclassed by anything stronger than a 33% damage reduction on a 5000 hp t4 unit, i dont think the word immortal in a primary name should be spent on such an effect. 

All of that said i think such a name would be a great fit for when stronghold gets building unity.

Worldbreaker Gun doesn't literally break worlds. Glaciation or Glacier Shell don't literally turn walls and buildings into glaciers. Ice Age is not literally a global, extinction level climate change. It's exaggeration for dramatic and imposing effect, as used a dime and dozen in fiction and everyday language.

If anything these cards show that for frost it is perfectly in line that they give their spells and entities names that present them as much grander than they are in reality.
"This enormous cannon is so mighty, it can break the entire world!"
"This ancient, arcane magic makes buildings as sturdy as a glacier!"
"This powerful enchantment will conjure an ice age so that our protection will be everlasting!"
and here
"These Ice Shields are so potent, they turn any creature into an immortal bastion!"

Immortal Aegis does have a nice ring to it too, though ...

Edited by Cocofang
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While we do this the first time, we really should think a moment about naming conventions. What AVinc wrote really got me thinking.

Shouldnt it be like: The name of the card can be super artsy and creative, but the Ability should be as descriptive as possible?

Like: Wrecker has a "Rallying Cry", not a "Warcry of the Tribes".  Scavenger has " Crippling Bite", not "Poison of the Somethingsomething". Strikers have a Charge. Thats just the first few cards in the collection I'm looking at.

So my suggestion: lets keep a Ice Shield just what it is - a "Ice Shield".

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On 10/26/2021 at 7:57 AM, AVinc said:

On a sidenote, if you're going to call something 'pretty subjective and not very strong' you could at least bother to read or understand the card effects that you're using as part of your counter-argument.

Firstly i meant no offense. Secondly by your own reply to my initial comment it is patently subjective. You draw the line where you see fit between various effects because of differences in their mechanical origins despite the fact that they effect the same actions such as refreshing shields so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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On 10/26/2021 at 8:17 AM, Majora said:

The goal of asking for cardnames is to get a pool of cool candidates for the patreons to choose from. Everyone should feel encouraged to share their card and effect-names without the risk of getting into an argument to defend their preference. Please refrain from calling people out if you disagree with their name-suggestion, everyone has their own opinion. I dont want this comment section to turn into a big argument. 

I didnt mean my reply to come off so negatively I just wanted to further the discussion. 

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On 10/26/2021 at 10:11 AM, Cocofang said:

Worldbreaker Gun doesn't literally break worlds. Glaciation or Glacier Shell don't literally turn walls and buildings into glaciers. Ice Age is not literally a global, extinction level climate change. It's exaggeration for dramatic and imposing effect, as used a dime and dozen in fiction and everyday language.

If anything these cards show that for frost it is perfectly in line that they give their spells and entities names that present them as much grander than they are in reality.

I dont have a problem with reasonable hyperbole. I generally like your suggestion but my main issue is that if we use it for this spell then we have less opportunity to use those words in places where they might be more fitting such as when the building overhaul happens. 

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