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MephistoRoss

Upgrades distribution tweak

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I want to make a suggestion for tweaking the upgrade distribution of multiplayer PvE maps (not Battlegrounds) after winning a game. The thing that I hated in the old Battleforge when you were trying to collect certain upgrades in multiplayer maps is when the upgrades were set to "assign" by the match maker and after the game he quickly assigns all upgrades to himself and leaves the group, leaving the rest empty handed. And even when you encountered a match makers who wasnt that lame, you still had to be lucky that the upgrade you already played ten other games for and it finally drops, it wasnt given to a different player who was also looking for it. Because of this strugle to gain certain upgrades, most players didnt even bother anymore to gain upgrades by playing normal PvE maps and they just played Battlegrounds.

Therefore, I would like to change the upgrade distribution function a bit. My preferable option is to skip the assign/random/need&greed options and just hand out all four upgrades to all players (who didnt drop out the game early). This would also speed up gathering upgrades a bit, but not that it would drastically change or be much faster than gaining specific upgrades through Battlegrounds. Also if people think this would be earning upgrades too fast, maybe only three or two upgrades should be earned at every game (by every player).

Another option could be to disable the assign function and just always let the server decide by random or need&greed. Or the assingn function could be modified so the matchmaker could only take 1 upgrade himself in 4 and 12 player maps and max 2 upgrades in 2 player maps. But as I said, I prefer my first option so everyone gets all upgrades that are dropped. It might also even be easier for the Devs to implement it this way as they wont need to build all those distribution modes, but just one function.

Please let me know what you guys think about this suggestion and if you maybe have some alternatives or tweaks to this idea.

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Mh, dont see a problem here: If you cant get one upgrade you need, then simply play rPVE for Tokens and upgrade it with them.
Otherwise open the Lobby by yourself or play with friends

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I like they idea but would change it by randomly giving the player one of the four upgrade cards. If they want another they have to play the mission again BUT they can´t get an upgrade twice. Meaning that you have to play a map max 4 times for the upgrade you want/need.

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[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9170' dateline='1437679520']
I like they idea but would change it by randomly giving the player one of the four upgrade cards. If they want another they have to play the mission again BUT they can´t get an upgrade twice. Meaning that you have to play a map max 4 times for the upgrade you want/need.
[/quote]

The four (or three or two) upgrades are already selected random by the server (random from the loot list of each map: [url=http://bfreborn.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=413]http://bfreborn.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=413[/url]). So are you saying everyone should just get one upgrade for each game (instead of four/three/two)? Or am I misunderstanding? Btw, at one player maps, you get 2 upgrades. Upgrades that you already have will be discarted into gold (and tokens if you have that element thingie).

Another idea could be to never let upgrades drop, but just only drop tokens. Although I dont really prefer this as people might only farm the easiest map. Like with the element thingie, many people played King of the Giant or The Insane over and over because it would give you many tokens.


[quote='Injilos' pid='9168' dateline='1437679356']
Mh, dont see a problem here: If you cant get one upgrade you need, then simply play rPVE for Tokens and upgrade it with them.
Otherwise open the Lobby by yourself or play with friends
[/quote]
As much as I like to play Battlegrounds, I prefer to play the normal maps as well to have some variety. And of course I can become a match maker myself, but if many players do that because they want upgrades, there will be a long wait until you have a full game when there are not many players online.

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I think this will at least increasethe amount of players playing actual PVE Maps after the beginning of the game.
I doubt it would effect the long term though and most players will farm the maps anyways to get the upgrades in the beginning.
But it would definetly gave non group leader more safety about their upgrades and i think thats a pretty good thing and should be promoted. I have like no clue how hard this is to implement( as always).

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[quote='MephistoRoss' pid='9171' dateline='1437679883']
[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9170' dateline='1437679520']
I like they idea but would change it by randomly giving the player one of the four upgrade cards. If they want another they have to play the mission again BUT they can´t get an upgrade twice. Meaning that you have to play a map max 4 times for the upgrade you want/need.
[/quote]

The four (or three or two) upgrades are already selected random by the server (random from the loot list of each map: [url=http://bfreborn.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=413]http://bfreborn.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=413[/url]). So are you saying everyone should just get one upgrade for each game (instead of four/three/two)? Or am I misunderstanding? Btw, at one player maps, you get 2 upgrades. Upgrades that you already have will be discarted into gold (and tokens if you have that element thingie).

Another idea could be to never let upgrades drop, but just only drop tokens. Although I dont really prefer this.
[/quote]

Exactly. Everybody gets one Upgrade but you cant get them more than one time. The upgrade into token thing should remain. This would keep the people playing the map for quite a while and would not let them get all upgrade too fast imo.

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[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9170' dateline='1437679520']
I like they idea but would change it by randomly giving the player one of the four upgrade cards. If they want another they have to play the mission again BUT they can´t get an upgrade twice. Meaning that you have to play a map max 4 times for the upgrade you want/need.
[/quote]

How would just playing the game a max of 4 times be enough to give you the upgrade you want/need ?  A lot of 4 player maps have about 20 upgrade cards to be obtained from, so I don't see how playing a max of 4 times is enough to get the upgrade you wanted/needed.

Let's say you play a 4 player map with 4 players. Imagine if 3 players already had all the upgrades from that map. The one player left would only be able to get 1 card according to you. Does that player randomly get 1 of the 4 upgrades and the rest goes into gold, is he able to choose 1 upgrade card and the rest goes into gold or is he able to get all the upgrade cards ?

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[quote='ladadoos' pid='9177' dateline='1437680793']
[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9170' dateline='1437679520']
I like they idea but would change it by randomly giving the player one of the four upgrade cards. If they want another they have to play the mission again BUT they can´t get an upgrade twice. Meaning that you have to play a map max 4 times for the upgrade you want/need.
[/quote]

How would just playing the game a max of 4 times be enough to give you the upgrade you want/need ?  A lot of 4 player maps have about 20 upgrade cards to be obtained from, so I don't see how playing a max of 4 times is enough to get the upgrade you wanted/needed.

Let's say you play a 4 player map with 4 players. Imagine if 3 players already had all the upgrades from that map. The one player left would only be able to get 1 card according to you. Does that player randomly get 1 of the 4 upgrades and the rest goes into gold, is he able to choose 1 upgrade card and the rest goes into gold or is he able to get all the upgrade cards ?
[/quote]

First was an example. I mean that they have to play the map until they have all upgrades they need/want. If they´re lucky they will get the upgrade they need in the first game. Not everybody will need every single upgrade. Secondly the player who has not all upgrades yet will get ONE random upgrade card just like everyone but in the next game he CAN´T get the same upgrade again. The others will get gold/tokens/whatever the Devs would choose from the other 3 upgrade cards.

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[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9180' dateline='1437681243']
[quote='ladadoos' pid='9177' dateline='1437680793']
[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9170' dateline='1437679520']
I like they idea but would change it by randomly giving the player one of the four upgrade cards. If they want another they have to play the mission again BUT they can´t get an upgrade twice. Meaning that you have to play a map max 4 times for the upgrade you want/need.
[/quote]

How would just playing the game a max of 4 times be enough to give you the upgrade you want/need ?  A lot of 4 player maps have about 20 upgrade cards to be obtained from, so I don't see how playing a max of 4 times is enough to get the upgrade you wanted/needed.

Let's say you play a 4 player map with 4 players. Imagine if 3 players already had all the upgrades from that map. The one player left would only be able to get 1 card according to you. Does that player randomly get 1 of the 4 upgrades and the rest goes into gold, is he able to choose 1 upgrade card and the rest goes into gold or is he able to get all the upgrade cards ?
[/quote]

First was an example. I mean that they have to play the map until they have all upgrades they need/want. If they´re lucky they will get the upgrade they need in the first game. Not everybody will need every single upgrade. Secondly the player who has not all upgrades yet will get ONE random upgrade card just like everyone but in the next game he CAN´T get the same upgrade again. The others will get gold/tokens/whatever the Devs would choose from the other 3 upgrade cards.
[/quote]

I see, so if there are for example 20 upgrades that you can get from the loot list of a  map on a certain difficulty, you would have gotten all those upgrades after playing the map 20 times in total (on that difficulty). I like your idea, not sure if this makes it too easy to farm all upgrades though. But I guess you still need to play like 525 PvE games (one time for each cards except the promos) on all difficulties divided over all maps for this.

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[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9180' dateline='1437681243']

First was an example. I mean that they have to play the map until they have all upgrades they need/want. If they´re lucky they will get the upgrade they need in the first game. Not everybody will need every single upgrade. Secondly the player who has not all upgrades yet will get ONE random upgrade card just like everyone but in the next game he CAN´T get the same upgrade again. The others will get gold/tokens/whatever the Devs would choose from the other 3 upgrade cards.
[/quote]

What if you play a 4 player map alone ? Do I just get 1 upgrade randomly and the rest gets converted into gold/tokens ( or upgrade stuff if you got element of conversion )? What if you play a 4 player map with 2 people ?

@MephistoRoss
I see, so if there are for example 30 upgrades that you can get from the loot list of a map on a certain difficulty, you would have gotten all those upgrades after playing the map 30 times in total (on that difficulty). I like your idea, although it might get too easy to farm all upgrades this way.

Well, I think it's fine. I mean, there are 4 4 players maps If i'm correct. If you can get 30 upgrades in total for each map, that means 120 upgrades/games.. That is just 1 difficulty.. Then you still have upgrade I and II wich means for you to get all the upgrades ( I, II, and III ) from all the x4 4 player maps you would have to play 480 games (480 games = 120 fully upgraded cards) <---(This result depends on what the total amount of upgrades is you can get from 1 map in a certain difficulty )

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[quote='ladadoos' pid='9185' dateline='1437681492']
[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9180' dateline='1437681243']

First was an example. I mean that they have to play the map until they have all upgrades they need/want. If they´re lucky they will get the upgrade they need in the first game. Not everybody will need every single upgrade. Secondly the player who has not all upgrades yet will get ONE random upgrade card just like everyone but in the next game he CAN´T get the same upgrade again. The others will get gold/tokens/whatever the Devs would choose from the other 3 upgrade cards.
[/quote]

What if you play a 4 player map alone ? Do I just get 1 upgrade randomly and the rest gets converted into gold/tokens ( or upgrade stuff if you got element of conversion )? What if you play a 4 player map with 2 people ?
[/quote]

i think that cases are kinda easy. just give the solo player all upgrades adn the 2 people each 2 upgrades.
it kinda gets hard if you cant divide the players and the amount of upgrades
so if you play a 4 men map with 3 people it gets difficult. but i would suggest that 1 upgrade just gets converted into tokens for everyone.

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[quote='ladadoos' pid='9185' dateline='1437681492']
[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9180' dateline='1437681243']

First was an example. I mean that they have to play the map until they have all upgrades they need/want. If they´re lucky they will get the upgrade they need in the first game. Not everybody will need every single upgrade. Secondly the player who has not all upgrades yet will get ONE random upgrade card just like everyone but in the next game he CAN´T get the same upgrade again. The others will get gold/tokens/whatever the Devs would choose from the other 3 upgrade cards.
[/quote]

What if you play a 4 player map alone ? Do I just get 1 upgrade randomly and the rest gets converted into gold/tokens ( or upgrade stuff if you got element of conversion )? What if you play a 4 player map with 2 people ?
[/quote]

You will always get only one upgrade. The rest will go into gold/tokens etc. but this time you will get the gold/tokens of 3 players. This would of course have to be optimized and calculated perfectly so that there are no "easy maps" to grind infinitely. Depending on the map and its difficulty the drop has to be regulated.

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[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9187' dateline='1437681804']

You will always get only one upgrade. The rest will go into gold/tokens etc. but this time you will get the gold/tokens of 3 players. This would of course have to be optimized and calculated perfectly so that there are no "easy maps" to grind infinitely. Depending on the map and its difficulty the drop has to be regulated.
[/quote]

This being said, I'm really agaisnt your idea then. I used to always do solo king of giants expert in combination with the elements to get a lot of tokens etc.. to upgrade my cards. That was my main income for being able to upgrade cards.. With your idea I wouldn't be able to do it anymore.

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[quote='ladadoos' pid='9190' dateline='1437681983']
[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9187' dateline='1437681804']

You will always get only one upgrade. The rest will go into gold/tokens etc. but this time you will get the gold/tokens of 3 players. This would of course have to be optimized and calculated perfectly so that there are no "easy maps" to grind infinitely. Depending on the map and its difficulty the drop has to be regulated.
[/quote]

This being said, I'm really agaisnt your idea then. I used to always do solo king of giants expert in combination with the elements to get a lot of tokens etc.. to upgrade my cards. That was my main income for being able to upgrade cards.. With your idea I wouldn't be able to do it anymore.
[/quote]

thats a somewhat selfish reason but i think youre basically right. If you solo a 4 player map you should get the reward for soloing it aswell. At least give him more of the upgrades if not all( what i would prefer).

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[quote='Treim' pid='9191' dateline='1437682161']
thats a somewhat selfish reason but i think youre basically right. If you solo a 4 player map you should get the reward for soloing it aswell. At least give him more of the upgrades if not all( what i would prefer).
[/quote]

I wouldn't call it somewhat selfish. I would call it a waste if you solo a map and don't have the 4 upgrades and you just get one and the rest gets converted instead of getting them 4. I mean, you kinda get rewarded for doing it solo. Although, king of giants solo wasn't really hard at all.

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[quote='Treim' pid='9191' dateline='1437682161']
[quote='ladadoos' pid='9190' dateline='1437681983']
[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9187' dateline='1437681804']

You will always get only one upgrade. The rest will go into gold/tokens etc. but this time you will get the gold/tokens of 3 players. This would of course have to be optimized and calculated perfectly so that there are no "easy maps" to grind infinitely. Depending on the map and its difficulty the drop has to be regulated.
[/quote]

This being said, I'm really agaisnt your idea then. I used to always do solo king of giants expert in combination with the elements to get a lot of tokens etc.. to upgrade my cards. That was my main income for being able to upgrade cards.. With your idea I wouldn't be able to do it anymore.
[/quote]

thats a somewhat selfish reason but i think youre basically right. If you solo a 4 player map you should get the reward for soloing it aswell. At least give him more of the upgrades if not all( what i would prefer).
[/quote]

Well you can discuss about this of course or let the community vote/ the devs decide. If you play a four player map solo then my bonus-reward is the bonus gold/tokens. If tokens or upgrades is to decide.

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[quote='ladadoos' pid='9190' dateline='1437681983']
[quote='Upcrafter' pid='9187' dateline='1437681804']

You will always get only one upgrade. The rest will go into gold/tokens etc. but this time you will get the gold/tokens of 3 players. This would of course have to be optimized and calculated perfectly so that there are no "easy maps" to grind infinitely. Depending on the map and its difficulty the drop has to be regulated.
[/quote]

This being said, I'm really agaisnt your idea then. I used to always do solo king of giants expert in combination with the elements to get a lot of tokens etc.. to upgrade my cards. That was my main income for being able to upgrade cards.. With your idea I wouldn't be able to do it anymore.
[/quote]

Ladadoos, did you really like playing king of the giant solo over and over just to earn tokens, or would you have prefered if you could make the same amount of tokens by playing other maps as well (in the same amount of time)?

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[quote='MephistoRoss' pid='9197' dateline='1437683172']

Ladadoos, did you really like playing king of the giant solo over and over just to earn tokens, or would you have prefered if you could make the same amount of tokens by playing other maps as well (in the same amount of time)?
[/quote]
Of course I didn't enjoy it. It became very boring, but I don't see how your suggestion makes me able to gain just as much tokens in the same amount of time by playing other maps.

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[quote='ladadoos' pid='9198' dateline='1437683356']
[quote='MephistoRoss' pid='9197' dateline='1437683172']

Ladadoos, did you really like playing king of the giant solo over and over just to earn tokens, or would you have prefered if you could make the same amount of tokens by playing other maps as well (in the same amount of time)?
[/quote]
Of course I didn't enjoy it. It became very boring, but I don't see how your suggestion makes me able to gain just as much tokens in the same amount of time by playing other maps.
[/quote]

I just wanted you to agree that the elements with the old system werent perfect too... 
Besides the elements could still work with all the ideas that were said, it could still be an option to convert upgrades to tokens. With my idea to get 4 upgrades on every multiplayer map, you could even make more tokens that way (also on other maps). And the amount of tokens might get tweaked anyway by the Devs, so even if you would only get one upgrade (as with Upcrafter's idea) it wouldnt necessary mean you will get less tokens than in the old Battleforge.

Btw, Another suggestion is not to buy the elements for bfp, but let everyone always have the option to change upgrades they dont want into tokens.

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[quote='MephistoRoss' pid='9201' dateline='1437683993']
Besides the elements could still work with all the ideas that were said, it could still be an option to convert upgrades to tokens. With my idea to get 4 upgrades on every multiplayer map, you could even make more tokens that way (also on other maps). And the amount of tokens might get tweaked anyway by the Devs, so even if you would only get one upgrade (as with Upcrafter's idea) it wouldnt necessary mean you will get less tokens than in the old Battleforge.

Btw, Another suggestion is not to buy the elements for bfp, but let everyone always have the option to change upgrades they dont want into tokens.
[/quote]

I doubt that 1 upgrade in BFReborn will be worth more than 4 upgrades in BF... Perhaps it might, I don't know.
Would those 4 upgrades that you get on the multiplayer map in your suggestion be random ? Or will it also detect if you already have that upgrade, and if you do it will give another upgrade (and when you already have all upgrades just automatically convert to gold ). So that every single player from that match gets upgrades depending on their needs/what they already got.

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[quote='ladadoos' pid='9202' dateline='1437684394']
[quote='MephistoRoss' pid='9201' dateline='1437683993']
Besides the elements could still work with all the ideas that were said, it could still be an option to convert upgrades to tokens. With my idea to get 4 upgrades on every multiplayer map, you could even make more tokens that way (also on other maps). And the amount of tokens might get tweaked anyway by the Devs, so even if you would only get one upgrade (as with Upcrafter's idea) it wouldnt necessary mean you will get less tokens than in the old Battleforge.

Btw, Another suggestion is not to buy the elements for bfp, but let everyone always have the option to change upgrades they dont want into tokens.
[/quote]

I doubt that 1 upgrade in BFReborn will be worth more than 4 upgrades in BF... Perhaps it might, I don't know.
Would those 4 upgrades that you get on the multiplayer map in your suggestion be random ? Or will it also detect if you already have that upgrade, and if you do it will give another upgrade (and when you already have all upgrades just automatically convert to gold ). So that every single player from that match gets upgrades depending on their needs/what they already got.
[/quote]

My idea was based on that it would work the same as the old system (so random from the map loot list), just with the tweak that all players would get all four upgrades instead of having to divide them. If you have an upgrade already, it would be discarted into gold (or tokens). But I am also starting to like Upcrafter's idea more and more.

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[quote='MephistoRoss' pid='9204' dateline='1437684758']

My idea was based on that it would work the same as the old system (so random from the map loot list), just with the tweak that all players would get all four upgrades instead of having to divide them. If you have an upgrade already, it would be discarted into gold (or tokens). But I am also starting to like Upcrafter's idea more and more.
[/quote]
Oh ok.. Well, I like @Upcrafter 's  idea too, only if what @Treim suggested is added. This suggestion being that I would still be able to do solo maps and get all the upgrades. Addicionally, if I play 4 player map with 2 players that the upgrades would be divided between us and with 3 players it would be divided by 3 and 1 upgrade would convert.

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[quote='ladadoos' pid='9205' dateline='1437685250']
[quote='MephistoRoss' pid='9204' dateline='1437684758']

My idea was based on that it would work the same as the old system (so random from the map loot list), just with the tweak that all players would get all four upgrades instead of having to divide them. If you have an upgrade already, it would be discarted into gold (or tokens). But I am also starting to like Upcrafter's idea more and more.
[/quote]
Oh ok.. Well, I like @Upcrafter 's  idea too, only if what @Treim suggested is added. This suggestion being that I would still be able to do solo maps and get all the upgrades. Addicionally, if I play 4 player map with 2 players that the upgrades would be divided between us and with 3 players it would be divided by 3 and 1 upgrade would convert.
[/quote]

I think that might be a bit too easy to gain all upgrades. According to the loot list ([url=http://bfreborn.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=413]http://bfreborn.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=413[/url]) there are around 20 upgrades on all expert maps. That would mean you would only need to solo a map 5 times to get all U3 upgrades from it. So I think it might be better to always get only one upgrade. But maybe if you solo a map, the other upgrades get converted into gold + tokens.

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[quote='MephistoRoss' pid='9210' dateline='1437686040']

I think that might be a bit too easy to gain all upgrades. According to the loot list ([url=http://bfreborn.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=413]http://bfreborn.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=413[/url]) there are around 20 upgrades on all expert maps. That would mean you would only need to solo a map 5 times to get all U3 upgrades from it. So I think it might be better to always get only one upgrade. But maybe if you solo a map, the other upgrades get converted into gold + tokens.
[/quote]
Oke yeah.. I guess that would be a bit too fast.. How many cards did you have to convert into honoor tokens, victory tokens etc.. to be able to craft a upgrade III? If 3 would be enough, then you basically would have won: 1 upgrade card III and 1 upgrade card III from your choice.

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I`d suggest to give every player the upgrade he desires from the 4 upgrades (not all of them). So everyone can choose one out of the 4 given (or 2 on 2-player-maps). One still needs a bit of luck to get the one upgrade needed, but there wouldn't be frustrating moments anymore where your upgrade gets assigned to someone else or everything is taken by the leader.

Nice idea to open this thread and adressing this problem btw. ;)

PS: Didn't read the whole thread just now as I am short on time but maybe later. Sorry if this was already suggested.

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