PvP "Chess" snapshot puzzles

[anonyme0273]

I'm a big fan of chess, and when someone asks me what BattleForge is, I describe it as real time chess - complex, requires strategy, predicting your opponent and playing accordingly. If you don't like the analogy or think it's just the description of any RTS, ok, but I'm bringing in a closer point.

Chess puzzles

Many people get better at chess by doing puzzles - being thrown into an existing game environment where they need to quickly adapt to the situation despite not progressing to that current state themselves, then find a few best moves. After making a move, you immediately find out if you did the right thing and sometimes there is a sequence to be found, not just a single move. Except the easier puzzles, the player is either in a disadvantage, under heavy attack, or in a middle of an attacking sequence. Each scenario only has one correct solution, which quickly makes puzzles a good learning experience, though can get very hard very fast.

As you can see in the image above, the game already started, but the player (Black) only sees the last move. Now he plays what he thinks is the best move, usually leading to a checkmate, simplification or a serious advantage. For chess fans - see if you can find the solution, I failed my first few tries ^^

Problem with chess puzzles like this is - there is always only one best move. That's not the case for BattleForge most of the times. Usually any situation can be resolved more ways than one, some easier, some harder, but I believe there is hardly ever just one very specific thing to do.

BattleForge puzzles

I propose a similar thing for BattleForge - though a tad different, because BF isn't turn based mostly and also there can be no action for a while, while in chess you can't skip your turn to wait for more Power to flow to your pool. Still, being thrown into an existing battlefield or game situation where one player is in an advantage gives room for both strong and new players to grow.

For example - it's hard to instantly know how to deal against a Harvester if you haven't seen or played the matchup before. It also very much depends on your deck and the map you are playing. So imagine a scenario where a half health Harvester is on it's way, but you have plenty of Power and some standing units to try and defend against this. Writing down all the customization options for this would be too long, could be dozens - Power pool, standing units, deck, own unit Tier...

What I'd imagine could work nicely is two (or more) players open up a Sparring match, choose a position in an existing match as in PvE with a very specific map, where both know (or don't) all important values, layouts, units, used decks, and start playing. Once ingame, it's completely up to them what to do - they do what they think is best to win, which could be waiting, attacking, getting another Power well or going T3... unlike chess, there is no right answer, because games vary so much, until the top PvP ranks, where both players likely know exactly what to do. But mid and low elo players like me could learn a lot by playing short scenarios from a position of an advantage or disadvantage against a better or worse player on a map they don't know how to play properly.

Another example to keep things not completely boring - T2 Pure Fire vs T2 Bandits, cliffs, Firedancers on their way to destroy your wells, whatcha gonna do if you got units on the other side of the map? Attack a different base and sacrifice yours? Spawn two Skyfire Drakes and try to defend? Is there a right answer, or are both equally good to learn something? And from the position of the other player - you got Firedancers attacking, but the enemy is attacking a different base from a weak side. Same options, defend, focus on attack?

Coaches and their students could really use this since getting to a specific scenario is tedious, lengthy and usually not worth it since the game can then be resolved in a minute after a 5 minute build up. This could save time and give everyone something new to try.

One more example - a lengthy game that dragged on for twenty minutes, both players have huge Void power pools but no unit charges left, most Power wells are almost or completely empty, few units standing. What's the best thing to do? Wait and try and assemble a larger army, split push with small units, box up and defend until time runs out? Something that's not often practiced in real games but the experience could be worth it.

What it means for development

This suggestion, if accepted by the community and staff, would probably not be easy to implement. As it now stands in my mind, it would require certain specific things to be created and some to be changed (first one is the most important and also easiest though, and likely the only one really necessary to make this viable, the rest is building on top of that)

• snapshot option in a Sparring match - a nice feature that would export the current state of the game as a separate playable map, easier than creating a scenario by hand - players play as they would and at a certain point a snapshot is made. The game can then be continued, finished, then replayed starting at that snapshot (with saved decks) - to try different outcomes of a specific fight
• map editor that only does units, buildings and all important values (unit healths, Power pools, both Void and available), so creators of these puzzles aren't burdened by scripts, map generation and all the other stuff that creates a steep learning curve for the editor itself. Could import aforementioned snapshots to edit them, give one player an edge for increased difficulty
• a way to play these puzzles in Sparring grounds, so either a list or a manual download, which again, can be a tad confusing
• customizing these Puzzles in the created lobby - perhaps scaling the advantages of one player to even out skill levels, or create more difficult scenarios to really put the pressure on. Not yet sure how that would look or work, just listing it all out here
• a lot of time to create a batch of puzzles to be played at first, so the game mode has some varying content form day 1

Actual gameplay

Both players join a lobby with a scenario selected, as they would select a normal PvP map. Both players see or know the map and can choose their position (and maybe deck, if allowed), the rest of the settings is global (handicaps that add Power or additional units to one player)

Pros

I believe this would have many pros when it comes to learning and getting better at PvP

• trying out new things
• getting better at ones weak points (playing against Harvesters, Ashbone spam, Mortar spam, walls, Burrower spam)
• perfecting a specific matchup fight scenario
• change one small thing and see a different outcome of the whole game (perhaps ya didn't want to miss that Eruption or not take that Well so early?)
• switch places as your opponent, see things from their perspective

TL;DR

Players finding the best course of action to win against each other in customizable midgame/endgame scenarios that saves time for PvP practice

 

Let me know what you think, if you like the idea, if you'd add something or just think it's garbage and useless.

[AddAcc42]

I liked reading this.

Tight puzzle-like scenarios can work for PvE too (if not maybe even better than for PvP). Might take a while before we see maps like this, but Skylords Reborn is definitely a good fit for these kinds of challenges.

[Eirias]

I like this idea.

There is a community map with a similar theme called Groundhog day, check it out in the meantime!

[Eirias]

I've been trying some speedruns and I think the snapshot option would actually be soooo useful for practicing the runs. Like if you consistently fail the aura placement at Bad harvest (which I do), I'd rather not make 3 other people feed me for 3 minutes so I get one opportunity to practice it. At that point I don't even need feeders (or there could be the option to manually add +1000 power in a "snapshot editor") so that I can practice just the final part of the run by myself.

It seems like this should be possible to export a timestamp of a replay into a map editor, so does this already exist and I just don't know about it?

[anonyme0273]

Didn't even think of PvE use, but you have a point! And as you mentioned, seeing how the replays work it SHOULD be possible to implement easier than expected. The replay is just steps of commands, not sure about PvE, but still sounds good