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free pvp decks maximum number of a player can use them.


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Hello

created new topic to add a suggestion on free pvp decks ,you create them to help players who dont want to play pve i understand that .

i suggest after a number of uses of free pvp deck ,for example 10 ,since they get enough gold for their upgrades its time to make their deck and no longer be able use free pvp again or some time (another 10 weeks)

The way i see it now the pvp players have a huge advantage they register the account and boom all cards are there or at least the 90% is there no need to bother buy cards or upgrade them.

While the pve player not only start with worst cards thats the old f2p ,we still need lot of gold to upgrade them and bfp to go and buy the correct cards.

give them more gold for each game and 10 times of use the free pvp .

also free pvp is one of the best reason to create  multiple accounts.

nofearek9 and werty like this
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There are two important aspects for PvP:

  • Deck upgrade and cards available make a difference between victory and lose, giving weaker player chance to win against superior one by cards only. The amount of time you spend grinding PvE gives you advantage in PvP.
  • PvP community is small.

Losing because of weak deck does not encourage players to play the gamemode. Waiting time is largest problem regarding PvP mode, therefore necessary actions were taken to make the mode playable . Also, time limitations would badly influence Tournaments and similar events.

It has influence over marketplace, however, the cons are significantly smaller than pros.

I cannot understand thought process behind PvP and multiaccounting, though.

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nobody will loose from a "weak" deck people who just start the game will rent the 120 level decks for XX days to give them the chance build their own 120level deck.

about multi-accounting : i want to create smurf accounts and hit top10 in pvp so easy now with the freepvp decks ,only think i need is few email accounts.

 

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7 minutes ago, nofearek9 said:

I agree marketplace loose a lot cause of the free pvp decks.

I didn't "loose" anything, some prices are just shifted around.

Making PvP decks limited in time/usage will only encourage multiaccounting, since people will create a new account, when their free decks run out.

Also, I honestlt don't get what your problem with the free decks is in general.
Somehow you complain, that with them people can farm gold without building a deck, and on the other hand you want people to farm to build a deck.
So, please, explain to me, how and why the free PvP decks concretely make the game less enjoyable for you and also for so many people, that it would be a concern.

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4 minutes ago, Metagross31 said:

I didn't "loose" anything, some prices are just shifted around.

Making PvP decks limited in time/usage will only encourage multiaccounting, since people will create a new account, when their free decks run out.

Also, I honestlt don't get what your problem with the free decks is in general.
Somehow you complain, that with them people can farm gold without building a deck, and on the other hand you want people to farm to build a deck.
So, please, explain to me, how and why the free PvP decks concretely make the game less enjoyable for you and also for so many people, that it would be a concern.

you are pointing thing i never said :never said anything about farming gold neither that the game is less enjoyble.

i make a simple suggestion pvp player will play the game with the freepvp deck up to the point to be able and make their own deck is that a bad thing?

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Yes, because it defies the whole point behind the free PvP decks - to have a competitively viable deck without any farming of any kind. Giving them a time limit will force people to use them as time efficiently as possible in PvP instead of just play the way they like in order to ensure that they have a selfmade deck after their time ends. Giving them a limited amount of uses makes people less willing to play with them because it is like a consumable thing. The time/amount of games needed to build a PvP deck from scratch also varies heavily. E.g. a shadow nature deck will need way less expensive cards than for example a pure shadow/frost splash/nature T1 deck, which need 4 copies of a Harvester/Mountaineer/Shaman to bring them to deck lvl 120. Furthermore, if you already want to give them to people for long enough to make their own deck, why not let them keep the free ones in the first place? If they do not last long enough to build a full PvP deck, people who farmed more will have an, in my opinion unfair, advantage again. Aditionally, will people only have access to free decks until they can build a single PvP deck or a deck of every colour combination (10 / 16 decks, depending if you want each combination with different T1s or just one T1)? This would take even longer and bring your whole point even further ad absurdum. Only having one deck after the free deck phase is over will greatly limit your options of playstyle, making PvP way less interesting in my opinion, since you are then for a long time forced to just play one deck.

tl;dr, I don't think this idea is really thought through. The current system is fine and should stay the way it is.

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The point was that pvp players dont have to grind PVE anymore. With your idea they would have to, again. Even if pvp gives me the gold to upgrade a pvp deck after some time, unless you play everyday, youre probably still missing BFP (think about how much a pure shadow deck is bfp wise) and more importantly, a PVE rank wich you need for upgrading cards. So the idea is to force pvp players into pve, again, even if they dont want to. This time just after ten weeks when some probably wont expect it...

Also not nice for players like me, who enjoy both PVE and PVP - i spent all my BFP and gold on PVE cards so i can enjoy both modes. With your idea i would once again have to chose, i cant afford both.

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nobody will need to "farm" ,they will play pvp only ,you get bfp from pvp quest ,you get from the daily and you get boosters as well ,and all those pvp players we are talking are not newbie players they will make their deck within a month tops,mods will decide if it will be 5-10 or 15 weeks but i don't see a point a player to have the free pvp deck for ever ,its just a boost for the pvp only player,the point of the idea is yes give the benefit to pvp player start the game with free upgraded card but in the end they join the rest community ,market is part of this game like it or not .

 

sorry sunwu but i dont understand how this idea will  effect you and all player which do both ? since pvp and /or pve will get gold and bfp for their cards/upgrades.

Edited by kuwahara
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49 minutes ago, kuwahara said:

nobody will need to "farm" ,they will play pvp only ,you get bfp from pvp quest ,you get from the daily and you get boosters as well ,and all those pvp players we are talking are not newbie players they will make their deck within a month tops,mods will decide if it will be 5-10 or 15 weeks but i don't see a point a player to have the free pvp deck for ever ,its just a boost for the pvp only player,the point of the idea is yes give the benefit to pvp player start the game with free upgraded card but in the end they join the rest community ,market is part of this game like it or not .

 

sorry sunwu but i dont understand how this idea will  effect you and all player which do both ? since pvp and /or pve will get gold and bfp for their cards/upgrades.

You still didn't tell me where i get my PVE rank from if i dont play PVE (you need a certain rank to upgrade cards). Getting bfp from quests? Forced to play PVE again. And probably not even enough for my 4 harvesters wich are needed besides 4 x 19 other cards. Your main argument to me is: ,,others get something i dont get because they play another part of the game''.

That isn't enough for me to risk pvp becoming completly unplayable again. Because it is unplayable if you only have 3-7 pvp players online at the same time.

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The suggestion is cause of players which play only PVP and nothing else ,they use free pvp and just playing pvp ,with free pvp they use only the 10% of the game they dont need to buy boosters they dont need to go to the market ,about rank i dont think you need more than 2 days to get the pve rank to enable you upgrade the cards.The only pvp player must use also the other parts of the game boosters/market so our economy grow faster,free pvp 120 decks is not helping .

 

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free pvp deck is helping a lot ,increasing fast the EGO of some "PRO" players,pvp is dead cause some players played day and night in the beta pvp and now with the release you make it easier for them and everybody afraid to play against them.

10 weeks is a lot.

game should start as it was in the past .

in order to play pvp first you need to learn the basics, playing pve is the best way,stop using the lie that free pvp deck will help new comers,free pvp decks are helping good pvp players not wasting time ,nothing else.

i am using free pvp deck cause its the easy solution not the correct one for the game.

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17 minutes ago, kuwahara said:

The suggestion is cause of players which play only PVP and nothing else ,they use free pvp and just playing pvp ,with free pvp they use only the 10% of the game they dont need to buy boosters they dont need to go to the market ,about rank i dont think you need more than 2 days to get the pve rank to enable you upgrade the cards.The only pvp player must use also the other parts of the game boosters/market so our economy grow faster,free pvp 120 decks is not helping .

 

You are right in that the PvP decks have an influence on the market by lowering the prices of PvP only cards and mostly PvP cards, such as Giant Slayer or Scythe Fiends.
You have to keep in mind however, that other cards will therefore increase in value, because the average value of a booster will sonner or later fluctuate around their fixed market price of 350, as you can verify here: https://smj.herokuapp.com/boosters

7 minutes ago, werty said:

free pvp deck is helping a lot ,increasing fast the EGO of some "PRO" players,pvp is dead cause some players played day and night in the beta pvp and now with the release you make it easier for them and everybody afraid to play against them.

10 weeks is a lot.

game should start as it was in the past .

in order to play pvp first you need to learn the basics, playing pve is the best way,stop using the lie that free pvp deck will help new comers,free pvp decks are helping good pvp players not wasting time ,nothing else.

i am using free pvp deck cause its the easy solution not the correct one for the game.

This is just wrong, inappropriate and rude. It has nothing to do with boosting anyones ego. With the free PvP decks, everyone has the same chances of winning. If you don't make it to say the top 50, it is just because you are not good enough. And when you loose, it is because your opponent outplayed you. Getting good is the only way to climb the ranks, and this takes practice and effort. The knowledge you gain in PvE barely even helps in PvP, you have to play PvP in order to get better at it. If we go back to the old system - which btw was not optimized for fair play/fun but for making profit - people who farm more will win more, sometimes even against players, who would outplay them in an even match in terms of cards and upgrades.
The best PvP players are indeed the best, because they spent the most time practicing - just look at the number of games they player, its usually several hundred. I, who has played way less games obviously stand no chance against them. But this is also why we have a - admittedly flawed - Matchmaking System, to pair even players.

Edited by Metagross31
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you need to play pve to learn how to read cards ,what each card does and then start pvp ,nobody without knowing just the basics will start pvp the first day in battelforge stop using this excuse is a joke.all new player have to go throw pve first.

as said for me personal free pvp was good but not for the game.

taking the words of dallarian:

Losing because of weak deck does not encourage players to play the gamemode. Waiting time is largest problem regarding PvP mode, therefore necessary actions were taken to make the mode playable . Also, time limitations would badly influence Tournaments and similar events.

this is correct but the necessary actions should not be permanent ,yes i agree with this suggestion ,10 weeks are more than enough ,because we are talking about good pvp players which dont want to spend time and not new players to the game.

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1 hour ago, werty said:

you need to play pve to learn how to read cards ,what each card does and then start pvp ,nobody without knowing just the basics will start pvp the first day in battelforge stop using this excuse is a joke.all new player have to go throw pve first.

as said for me personal free pvp was good but not for the game.

taking the words of dallarian:

Losing because of weak deck does not encourage players to play the gamemode. Waiting time is largest problem regarding PvP mode, therefore necessary actions were taken to make the mode playable . Also, time limitations would badly influence Tournaments and similar events.

this is correct but the necessary actions should not be permanent ,yes i agree with this suggestion ,10 weeks are more than enough ,because we are talking about good pvp players which dont want to spend time and not new players to the game.

I made some effort of advertising Battleforge on Starcraft forums, during time when Starcraft servers were experiencing large issues. To provide you with enough information, Starcraft is most competitive RTS game, and is what actually created solid Esport across the world. The reason behind Starcraft success, were unique, different to play, balanced factions.

If I had to explain any of players "but there's a catch, after 10 weeks of playing, you can no longer build Ultralisks/Thors/Colosuss, and if you want to have more than one of those, you must sell zerglings on in-game marketplace and try to get good deal on useful units", they would probably laugh at it and move on. Such players play 1-3 PvE maps and go play unranked to find everything out, so I am confident at calling them new. Yes, such players play PvP on first day.

Please notice, that PvE and PvP in Battleforge are two different experiences.

 

What type of player am I? : PvE
Do I play PvP?: Sometimes, yes. I even defeated RadicalX once.
Do I contribute to PvP activity? : Yes.
Would I continue playing PvP, if after 10 weeks I lost access to some cards? : No, thanks. I am not planning on buying more charges for expensive PvE cards, just to stay competitive on T1, without even mentioning T2 and T3. I'd rather spend them on other decks.

Does my decision matter? : It's for you to determine. However, please keep in mind, there are more players like me, and within two weeks after release we had ~40-60k total players, we got only ~370 players who played ranked PvP. If you are going to cut access to PvP free decks, expect drop of popularity, from both mixed Players, and those who play only a few hours on weekends. PvP community is already minority, and we should aim at making it more popular, not at increasing entry level.

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pve and pvp are 2 diferent expiriences i agree, but both part of a game based on card collection .i never said in my suggestion to cut access to pvp free decks,i said they will have them up to the point they will be able to make their own and continue play based on the concept of the game.

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I wanna say something as a pretty much PvP only Player. 

While I enjoy the gameplay of PvP the most, I have to admit that the card collecting aspect became almost irrelevant for PvP Players like me. And this is quite the defining aspect that makes this game what it is. 

While I absolutely diagree with taking away ones free PvP Deck after a certain time, I think that a derease in accessability (is that a word?) to free PvP Decks would certainly help to encourage the card collecting aspect more. The biggest issue I see with the current system is

a) it lets you choose 2 Decks and

b) you can change Decks every week

1. Suggestion:

Only one permanantly set Free PvP Deck. Cards are Set only for PvP and cannot be traded but still be used in other PvP Decks. Let's face it, most PvP Players mainly play their one go to deck and enjoy playing others from time to time. You wouldn't take away the competitive aspect of the game since people can play their main Deck from the start on lvl 120 but need to take part in the card collecting aspect to get the experience of more decks.

2. Suggestion:

Random Deck Rotations. I would suggest the same system as right now but instead of taking 2 Decks you can strike 2 Decktypes or 4 Decks, you really don't want and then get 2 Decks randomly every week. This would let you play from the start on equal footing but for you to be able to play what you really want, you need to get cards and upgrades. It would also make sure you get at least one Deck that is competetivly viable since getting something like fire/shadow and shadow/fire in one roll is pretty unfair for most people.

What do you think?

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We've seen this topic appear from time to time, but I honestly don't think anything will satisfy players who don't like free PvP decks other than good intentions that will destroy the gamemode. I know all the new players I invited to the game would stop playing PvP if they had to grind 10's of hours in PvE first, and I know many others share the same view. It's honestly not a huge community, and PvP can realistically become unplayable with too few players.  

I don't think it is productive to tell the entire PvP community how to best play the gamemode they can already enjoy with no restrictions. Everyone is on the same skill level now, there is no more pay-2-win, and there are even balance updates. Life is good.

Plus, the more you play PvP, the more you want to experiment with new strats, adapt to the meta, which leads you to buy and upgrade new cards. It's just a different grind cycle than PvE, which does not depend on fully upgraded decks to be balanced. 

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8 hours ago, YaBro0 said:

1. Suggestion:

Only one permanantly set Free PvP Deck. Cards are Set only for PvP and cannot be traded but still be used in other PvP Decks. Let's face it, most PvP Players mainly play their one go to deck and enjoy playing others from time to time. You wouldn't take away the competitive aspect of the game since people can play their main Deck from the start on lvl 120 but need to take part in the card collecting aspect to get the experience of more decks.

While this idea seems good at first glance, there should still be an option to repick a deck. This is because someone, who just starts out with PvP will not know, what their playstyle will be. For example I first picked Fire/Frost when the free PvP decks came out and later noticed, that it didn't suite my playstyle at all, so I no longer pick it. And I guess that I am not alone in that position. I don't really think your idea is too bad however, so if we were to consider something like it, a system similar to the respecing system in World of Warcraft could be employed: Make the first pick free, one can then repick the deck for a small fee, which drastically increases with each repick.

 

8 hours ago, YaBro0 said:

2. Suggestion:

Random Deck Rotations. I would suggest the same system as right now but instead of taking 2 Decks you can strike 2 Decktypes or 4 Decks, you really don't want and then get 2 Decks randomly every week. This would let you play from the start on equal footing but for you to be able to play what you really want, you need to get cards and upgrades. It would also make sure you get at least one Deck that is competetivly viable since getting something like fire/shadow and shadow/fire in one roll is pretty unfair for most people.

This gives rise to another problem. In tournaments or other Bo3/Bo5 scenarios you will run into situations, where you will have to counterpick against some decks. Therefore you will need a deck, which covers the weaknesses of your main deck. For example, let's consider the Rock/Paper/Scissors like decks: Pure Fire beats Shadow Nature beats Pure Frost beats Pure Fire. When you now have one of those decks as your main deck, a good choice would be to take one of the other two as well to cover up your biggest weakness. It is like playing Rock/Paper/Scissors, but you only have the Rock and the Paper. I'm fine with not having immediate access to the Scissors and having to grind for it, but only having the Paper and relying on luck to get either Scissors or Rock seems kind of odd to me. Especially because the random rotation might give you a second piece of paper or even a wet noodle (*cough* bandits *cough*).
I know, that this is a very simplified version of how the PvP meta actually is, but the idea should be clear.

tl;dr: Your first suggestion seems plausible, but needs some tweaking. The second suggestion is not a good idea in my opinion. Maybe implementing the first suggestion for one deck and being able to pick the second deck as before would be feasible. But tbh, I still prefer the system as it is right now.

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I don't get why people want to force the "collectible card game" aspect onto PvP players. Many people like the CCG aspect but those are, to a large extent, PvE players anyway. People who want to play a unique, competetive RTS can do that as well with the free PvP Decks and those people don't care whether you can sell your scythe fiends for 30BFP or 400BFP.

Play the game the way you enjoy playing it and let others do the same without trying to instruct them on how the game is supposed to be played.

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