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[BF Sink] Brainstorming Inflation


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Hi everyone,

After a discussion on Discord with a couple players/devs, we established that the game doesn't have any BF sink, which may result in inflation on the market.

Since gold isn't tradable, accumulation of gold isn't much of an issue, beside not being useful in very late-game. We could give them a purpose, but this is not in the scope of this topic.
Another long term issue pointed by Mynoduesp is the lack of Card sink, which already results in the accumulation of cards on the market.

There are probably a lot of ways to counter that, so maybe we can put our minds together and find some.

Give your ideas in the thread and I'll add them to the main post ! :)

IDEA 1 : INGAME LOTTERY - Gnougnou

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I'll start with a first idea : We could have a lottery every X days where players could pay for tickets, all costing a certain amount of BF. Players can buy up to X tickets so it stays fair.
The wheel needs a minimum BF pool to start, and the price will scale up depending of the amount of money inside the pool. If the minimum amount of BF isn't reached, the BF are given back to the players. This would be a good way to drown a lot of BF for cards that are way less expensive than the total pool.

Let's say 100 players gamble 10BF each, that's 1000BF. Maybe the reward is a 500BF card. That's 500BF gone from the game.

Of course, the frequency of the lottery, the price of the ticket, the number of winners, the number of maximum tickets are all to be tweaked.

IDEA 2 : PROMO CARD SHOP - Mynoduesp

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Promo cards. My suggestion will not make everyone happy, it removes the possibility for lucky players to get promo cards with boosters. Now hear me out before you burn me alive: Firstly, removing promos will rise the value of every other card in the game available through boosters since they’re still bound to the 450 BFP cost of the boosters – thus help normalise the market prises of cards. Secondly, promo cards would still be available for everyone in the store for a set amount of BFP and will be accountbound/non-tradeable. Further I suggest that the fist promo card purchased from the store (not a player, this is very important since player interactions are net 0 trades) could be somewhat reasonably priced with… let’s say 5’000 BFP. The second one will cost you significantly more: 10k BFP. The third 15k and so on. This would give even regular players the option to buy their favourite promo cards if they wish to. At the same time it would delete enormous amounts of BFP from player who already own what they want.

IDEA 3 : SKINS - Gnougnou

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A Classic. What about creating a skin system for units ? This could also allow special skins for people paying on Patreon, so it's win-win for devs/players. Sure, this is not the ultimate solution since once you have all the skins, you're back at square one. But with a good balance, this could drastically increase the time before reaching end game.

Skin would be account-based, non-tradable and bought directly to a non-player market. This would help devs setting up prices.

 IDEA 4 : CARD CRAFTING - Tweeto

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How about making some kind of re-roll system where you place like 5 cards of the same rarity and you can re-roll into another random one of that rarity.

can be also done for factions, like 5 of the same faction into 1 random of the same faction. this could fix the overflow of cards, and people might want to try their luck more by buying from the auction house some cheap rare cards and re-rolling them trying to get something expensive. making them use more BF on cards that they probably wont otherwise.

this system probably have some issues but i think it can be fixed if we discuss it more, maybe capping the amount of re-rolls a player can do every day or making the pool of cards which can be made from the re-roll be more limited maybe also change the pool once in a while or adding a BF fee you have to put extra on top of the cards (maybe even make the fee greater with rarity)

another way to make it more interesting by adding some kind of special reward that can come out very rarely from the re-rolls we can think on rewards 1 idea i have for a reward is like a super mini booster - which is a mini booster with rare cards.


 

Edited by Gnougnou
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I've made a post about the games economy a while back during beta. My suggestion for a BFP sink were promo cards - which obviously didn't happen. I agree that the game is missing a sink for Gold, BFP and I'd even argue cards which is a long term economy issue which seems to get ignored for now. 

 

Edited by Mynoduesp
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5 hours ago, Mynoduesp said:

I've made a post about the games economy a while back during beta. My suggestion for a BFP sink were promo cards - which obviously didn't happen. I agree that the game is missing a sink for Gold, BFP and I'd even argue cards which is a long term economy issue which seems to get ignored for now. 

 

Oh boi I see that I missed quite a big post here. I agree with you that cards are indeed a long term issue.

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  • Gnougnou changed the title to [BF Sink] Brainstorming Inflation
4 hours ago, xs0ulLess said:

IDEA 3 : SKINS - Gnougnou: Skins would impose work for a certain hand of skills - graphical designers or something of that sort. Do we have such human ressources?

Yes and no. I don't know about the resources they have. What I do know, is that people are ready to pay real money for basically a photoshop recolor of a model, which is literally opening up photoshop, loading the UV map in, putting a couple effects and saving (looking at you League Of Legends). Some skins are of course more difficult to do and will very likely require skills.

I mean if I had a lot of it, I would totally pay BF for some cool skins, new effects or slight model modifications.

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4 hours ago, Gnougnou said:

Yes and no. I don't know about the resources they have. What I do know, is that people are ready to pay real money for basically a photoshop recolor of a model, which is literally opening up photoshop, loading the UV map in, putting a couple effects and saving (looking at you League Of Legends). Some skins are of course more difficult to do and will very likely require skills.

I mean if I had a lot of it, I would totally pay BF for some cool skins, new effects or slight model modifications.

I just got a funny idea - spend a horrendous amount of gold (like 9.999.999) to get the gold version of a card. Basically the same unit, but all colors are switched to a single shade of gold, making it look kinda rediculous.

But if we were to add skins of units, please make them PvE only, I don't want to learn 100 new skins for every unit. Some games (looking at you, Dota) change character skins more frequently than I change my underwear. So everytime I log back into the game after a period of not playing, a lot of stuff I know now looks different, basically making me have to learn the game from scratch again.

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Maybe a sink for cards, too. There are thousands of unwanted cards like "Mumbo Jumbo" in the game. There could be a shop in the marketplace where you can sell bulk card's for bfp or gold. Maybe count in the rarity of the card to get more in exchange.  Or just shred them to get a achievment for 100/1000/5000 shredded cards with an reward. When the reward is good enough, people are maybe willing to buy 3bfp card's from the marketplace or other players to get the achievment.

Thats not an answer for gold so :thinking:

Edited by Breimatscher
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15 hours ago, Metagross31 said:

I just got a funny idea - spend a horrendous amount of gold (like 9.999.999) to get the gold version of a card. Basically the same unit, but all colors are switched to a single shade of gold, making it look kinda rediculous.

But if we were to add skins of units, please make them PvE only, I don't want to learn 100 new skins for every unit. Some games (looking at you, Dota) change character skins more frequently than I change my underwear. So everytime I log back into the game after a period of not playing, a lot of stuff I know now looks different, basically making me have to learn the game from scratch again.

This is not "so stupid" idea, but I'd sink bfp into buying some kind of "holo card" like they print in magic the gathering or pokemon. Making shopping them available when having T3 upgrade and full charges. I'm not saying they should have texture changes (like promo) because that will need more work than necessery, but only staying to art image in cards and just changing it

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1 hour ago, Breimatscher said:

Maybe a sink for cards, too. There are thousands of unwanted cards like "Mumbo Jumbo" in the game. There could be a shop in the marketplace where you can sell bulk card's for bfp or gold. Maybe count in the rarity of the card to get more in exchange.  Or just shred them to get a achievment for 100/1000/5000 shredded cards with an reward. When the reward is good enough, people are maybe willing to buy 3bfp card's from the marketplace or other players to get the achievment.

Thats not an answer for gold so :thinking:

I proposed a Trashcan in another topic :

 

 

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The trashcan idea is great, but not solution for everything: If a "Card shredder" would convert 'valueless' cards back into bfp, the bfp economy would just inflate faster.

I like the idea of shredding cards for moderate gold values. But that requires an endsolution for the late economy gold economy (which the community seems to have some ideas for). A shredder like that would drain the market from low value cards just slightly, but at least there wouldn't be *valueless* cards (as long as there is value to gold). 

Edited by Mynoduesp
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I don't think we should bother now on cheap cards, but more on points inflation and having so many of them around. Gold is not so dangerous like having new players to pay 4X ammount for same cards because of inflation, a lot of bfp around but rewards on same spot.

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1 hour ago, Mynoduesp said:

The trashcan idea is great, but not solution for everything: If a "Card shredder" would convert 'valueless' cards back into bfp, the bfp economy would just inflate faster.

I like the idea of shredding cards for moderate gold values. But that requires an endsolution for the late economy gold economy (which the community seems to have some ideas for). A shredder like that would drain the market from low value cards just slightly, but at least there wouldn't be *valueless* cards (as long as there is value to gold). 

I agree that it adds more BF to the game. It's basically "letting people store useless cards even tho' it's annoying" VS "letting people trash them for BF at the expense of more BF in the game", which is why I didn't put the trashcan in the same thread. Also, I think it's better to have them give BF and not gold, because otherwise you have a BF to gold possibility. People with a lot of BF could buy plenty of 3BF cards to trash them for gold. Or you would need a limit to how many cards you can trash per day, at the very least.

Edited by Gnougnou
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I would sink all my bfp to turn some of the shadow units into a more shadowy colour..just saying. A black satanael and his snappers? take my bfp AND my gold good sir! A fourth upgrade for willzappers costing bfp and making them at least useable in pve? Deal. In general a costly 4th bfp upgrade on all cards to simply change their colours would be fun. Just a few ideas here..

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@Gnougnou Since Gold is the secondary currency for micro progression it is allright to convert BFP (the primary currency for macro progression) into Gold. The other way around - Gold into BFP - would enable Gold farming for BFP making the daily rewards redundant.

I also refered to "moderate" gold return, if it's to cheap, the system doesnt matter and if its too lukrative you disable the Gold progressen through map completion. But there is no world in which all 3 BFP cards could get shredded - on that we agree. It would need to be balanced, as all things need to be.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/12/2021 at 6:54 PM, Gnougnou said:

I agree that it adds more BF to the game. It's basically "letting people store useless cards even tho' it's annoying" VS "letting people trash them for BF at the expense of more BF in the game", which is why I didn't put the trashcan in the same thread. Also, I think it's better to have them give BF and not gold, because otherwise you have a BF to gold possibility. People with a lot of BF could buy plenty of 3BF cards to trash them for gold. Or you would need a limit to how many cards you can trash per day, at the very least.

but shredding cards for an achivment could be possible.

For example:

Shredd 10/50/100/1000 common cards to get sth. (dont know, maybe a Mini Booster or even a General one?)

Shredd 10/50/100/1000 uncommon cards to get sth..

Shredd 10/50/100/1000 rare cards....

Shredd 10/50/100/1000 ultra rare cards...

Just numbers that came to my mind.

So this would delete a lot of cards and bfp to get less bfp, gold or what else. Kinda just to "reroll" bad or unwanted card for a little chance to get some good out of it.

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Issue is ....
The game lacks content in general.
You can't create a ressource sink for something that isn't there.

And while something more or less superficial like reskins seems to be an idea that doesn't have any negative sides to it, it doesn't add much either. Plus it's still a great feat no matter how. I don't think the devs have the manpower, money or maybe even skills to wish 50+ artworks for cards into existing even less so talking about 3d models and proper animations.
IMO the only way to get the game an interesting endgame -> Ressource sink, it'd would mean to beef up the base game alltogether, something the devs won't most likely be capable of in the near future.

Edited by Darcurse
I'm slightly drunk and englisch isn't my 1. language
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im not sure if it was already suggested or discussed here before,

How about making some kind of re-roll system where you place like 5 cards of the same rarity and you can re-roll into another random one of that rarity.

can be also done for factions, like 5 of the same faction into 1 random of the same faction. this could fix the overflow of cards, and people might want to try their luck more by buying from the auction house some cheap rare cards and re-rolling them trying to get something expensive. making them use more BF on cards that they probably wont otherwise.

this system probably have some issues but i think it can be fixed if we discuss it more, maybe capping the amount of re-rolls a player can do every day or making the pool of cards which can be made from the re-roll be more limited maybe also change the pool once in a while or adding a BF fee you have to put extra on top of the cards (maybe even make the fee greater with rarity)

another way to make it more interesting by adding some kind of special reward that can come out very rarely from the re-rolls we can think on rewards 1 idea i have for a reward is like a super mini booster - which is a mini booster with rare cards.

this can be also linked to the promo shop that was suggested here, where you could buy them with some new currency that is super hard to obtain only by re-rolling cards. maybe something like 50 Skylords Points for a promo, but getting 1 point is very unlikely and super hard (only from re-rolls).

 

so yea let me know what you think this just came to my mind now and its probably not the best solution but might give some ideas to the devs.

 

Edited by Tweeto
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On 1/23/2021 at 12:10 AM, Tweeto said:

How about making some kind of re-roll system where you place like 5 cards of the same rarity and you can re-roll into another random one of that rarity.

I think this idea was proposed on the Discord and I think it could be a good idea. It could indeed destroy a lot of cards and BF. I added your idea to the main post.

Edited by Gnougnou
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  • 2 months later...
On 1/23/2021 at 12:10 AM, Tweeto said:

How about making some kind of re-roll system where you place like 5 cards of the same rarity and you can re-roll into another random one of that rarity.

can be also done for factions, like 5 of the same faction into 1 random of the same faction.

I like this Idea!
 

 

On 1/11/2021 at 10:47 PM, Metagross31 said:

I just got a funny idea - spend a horrendous amount of gold (like 9.999.999) to get the gold version of a card. Basically the same unit, but all colors are switched to a single shade of gold, making it look kinda rediculous.

That would be super cool and add a long-term usage to gold. However, sounds like a LOT work, even if the reskin is just single-coloured, since it would have to be done for every card and every card-unit model. 

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Hmm.. I would be nice to have some kind of wildcards craftable.

Lets say you can trade 5 cards into a token of the same rarity. These tokens can be exchanged into other cards of the same rarity. This would help the players getting hands on cards they really want for their decks, while shredding alot of others.

The obvious problem would be the price differences (who wouldn't like to buy 5x Curse Orb with ~40 bfp each in order to trade them for Enlightenment?). In order to prevent (or at least lessen) this issue, the cards could require a different amount of tokens, if you want to get them. So a Enlightenment would cost lets say 30 tokens while Curse Orb only costs 1.

In order to determine how many tokens a given card consumes, we could use the long-term average on AH prices (at least one month average or even better median in order to lessen the problem of manipulation). This could be done Static - a wildcard of a given rarity is worth x bfp and the cost for a card is AH-price / wildcard value (rounded down) or dynamic (lowest 20% of cards cost 1 token, 21-30% 3 token, etc).

Sure, the devs could also determine fixed prices for each card, but I think that would cause a lot of extra work and the system doesn't reflect price canges in AH. For example releasing a new card causes a existing one to go up from 50 bfp to 500 bfp because of a new combo. A dynamic approach like described above would reflect such changes, even with some (debatable) delay.

 

The big difference between my token idea and the already mentioned "x for one random" idea is the lack of RNG. I know some of you really like gambling, because it's exiting/fun. but on the other hand there are also some players (like me) which prefere a more predictable result.

/edit: after the reply from Asraiel, I edited the wording in order to make the idea more clear.

Edited by judaspriester
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2 hours ago, judaspriester said:

Lets say you can trade 5 cards into a wildcard of the same rarity. This would help the players getting hands on cards they really want for their decks, while shredding alot of others.

problem is that there are many cards of the same rarity that cost like 3 bfp currently. example 5x envenome and u get 1 shaman would mean that the shaman is worth 15 bfp. best is that the card u get is a gamble only maybe if u use building u get buildings, same for spell and units 

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