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Buff Tempest ?


Gnougnou

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Hello everyone,

Since EA era, I've been disappointed with the Tempest (frost). Unless it's somewhat useful in PVP and I've never heard about it, this card is just plain useless.

It costs 4 orbs, 90 power, to do basically nothing. You have to micro manage a unit that does 0 damage and isn't particularly tanky.
In PVE, at the point where you have 4 orbs, there is absolutely no reason to use this unit. Maybe it's good in squad, but at this point, why would you spawn Tempests rather than any XL ? 3 of those cost 270, that's more expensive than a Grimvine or a Lost Spirit Ship...

What I propose :
- Requires :frostorb::neutralorb::neutralorb: (-1).
- Gain a passive when deployed : -25% damage received in sentry mode (or a shield that refill over time or whatnot).
- Big range increase.

I'm aware this is a huge buff, but that would make it a good defensive unit and a good artillery unit against the 4th orb base. That would fit with the whole "tanky/slow/long range" gameplay of Ice (Battleships, Constructs, WBG, Fortress, etc...).

I like the "flak" idea of the Tempest, but I don't see any reason to play the card. Again, maybe it's a PVP card and I'm not aware of that. Let me know what you think !

Edited by Gnougnou
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I think you can already make valid fun decks around it, but a slight buff would imo be considerable. What annoys me most, is that it would need more initial charges to rock.

But we have other t4 where it is harder to build a deck around, that can do BG9 reliable

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It could break PvP ;) - strong long-range unit with small cost and orb requirements. Frost already is in strong position in T3 (with Silverwind Lancers and Tremor), so addition of this unit to T3 meta is not acceptable, I believe it would need to be useless, and that's against the spirit of thread.

 

It is a common Frost T4 card, so yes, by definition it is useless. In early game, when I was without many cards, it was a good addition to my deck, but since there are better things to do different jobs, I do not think there is spot for this card (if you think otherwise, please tell me ideas).

What card could it compete with? Dreadnought, Battleship, Construct? They cover both attack and defence, so what role Tempest would be supposed to do?

It perhaps could be a cheap glass cannon (very high DPS unit with low HP), but it doesn't fit Frost faction, and with currently available support it would be unkillable anyway.

Maybe if it lost HP while shooting could do the job - buildings should be nearby to provide heals, making it better at defence than offence, with splash damage attack. But again, it'd need to compete with Construct.

Edited by Dallarian
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11 minutes ago, Dallarian said:

It could break PvP ;) - strong long-range unit with small cost and orb requirements. Frost already is in strong position in T3 (with Silverwind Lancers and Tremor), so addition of this unit to T3 meta is not acceptable, I believe it would need to be useless, and that's against the spirit of thread.

[...]

What card could it compete with? Dreadnought, Battleship, Construct? They cover both attack and defence, so what would Tempest do?

It could indeed become a really powerful PVP card. The reason I wanted it to be 3 orbs is so it doesn't have to compete with the XL.

Maybe no shield/resist and the range increase could only work next to a building, like White Rangers or Lyrish Knight (even tho' I don't like the whole "put a piece of wall here or else your units will be useless" gameplay of Frost...).

Edited by Gnougnou
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If it was T3 long-range anti air units then it perhaps could work - strong anti air is something what Cannon Towers don't cover, and from T3 units that are either expensive XLs or more towers. It could make the card MVP in maps like Defending Hope, Siege of Hope, Behind Enemy lines and many more - if it was reliable counter to Twilight Dragons.

But at the same time, it should not break interactions of decks with cards like Spitfire in PvP.

A weird idea - partly from different games: Imagine if a unit in move can dodge Tempest's projectives (like Windhunter's projective can be dodged by Stormsinger/Dropship). Then, Tempest could be easily countered in PvP, while being reliable anti air source of damage for Frost on both T3 and T4 in campaigns and more.

However, Frost has nice tools already to deal with air (T2 units and spells), and I actually do not know if Frost's air defence wasn't planned weakness. It could have ability that increases it's range while next to buildings, to make it more demanding card for it's value (usage of Ice Barrier/more). Also still - Northland Drakes do fine, but for this pure purpose Tempests are more cost effective.

If it was designed to be counter to Twilight Dragon/Twilight Deathgliders/Bandit Windhunters, it'd made a card very specific, however useful and exciting.

 

The idea:

Tempest.png.2c52f28ce28693ad9c1bf543abdb2c95.png

 

Small cost decrease, large DPS and HP decrease, can attack air only after becoming stationary, and when nearby friendly buildings gain long range - attacks can be dodged by moving units.

Don't pay too much attention to numbers, I just looked at Silverwind Lancers and compared those two.

 

Also, it's redesign, not buff.

 

However, on top of that, there is only 1 squad common card on T4 for each standard faction (total 6 cards with two Lost Dragons), and Devs probably will not want to delete the only common squad. Tempest after all is a reliable T4 unit in starter decks - later it get replaced by more powerful cards, but it fills it's role as a cheap T4 card, same goes for prebuff Emberstrike. So probably Tempest's slot should be taken by another card with similar strength, what would make it unused for players with wider choice of cards as well. Also it's not like Tempest do nothing, in terms of power cost it's actually stronger than Ironclad, but more difficult to use, easier to lose and require "siege mode".

Therefore, the whole thread is very, very theoritical.

Edited by Dallarian
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Not sure if I would ever use it since I don't really need AA only unit (so far), but at least your idea would give it a role. T3 defensive long range AA. Maybe for some specific campaign as you said or in PVP that would work.

Edited by Gnougnou
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I had quickly cobbled together a rough Tempest deck yesterday, just before I stumbled across the thread here.
The only boss I haven't knocked out of his shoes yet in rPvE9 would be Hellhound. Even the Twilight Infester, which is sometimes very nasty to beat with L units, didn't have much to say against Tempest+Motivate.

It would certainly be interesting to try a double frost approach instead of a double shadow, but I'm currently lacking substance in my collection.

(This morning headless partly translated with DeepL, because still before the first coffee)

grafik.thumb.png.a0d2b9a9a3fa44fda79e46b18232b14f.png

 

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I also dont think it's possible to properly balance Tempest for T4.
Though we have better option - we can make buffed Northland Drake T4, which will help us achieve more simmetry between factions also get a chance to buff Pure 3 Frost deck in PvP (it's very hard to balance flying units for PvP). Also I think it's only option to buff Northland Drake.
Instead of Northland Drake, Tempest can become T3 unit with 3 Frost requirement and some balance changes. It's a big field for experiments. At the end we will get nice T4 flying unit for PvE and reliable 3 Frost PvP deck.

Edited by Loriens
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2 hours ago, Loriens said:

I also dont think it's possible to properly balance Tempest for T4.
Though we have better option - we can make buffed Northland Drake T4, which will help us achieve more simmetry between factions also get a chance to buff Pure 3 Frost deck in PvP (it's very hard to balance flying units for PvP). Also I think it's only option to buff Northland Drake.
Instead of Northland Drake, Tempest can become T3 unit with 3 Frost requirement and some balance changes. It's a big field for experiments. At the end we will get nice T4 flying unit for PvE and reliable 3 Frost PvP deck.

Northland Drake is already very powerful card, which literally deletes enemy XL units from the game. It's a key card in my Expert Campaign deck, and certainly does not need switch to T4. Depending on your playstyle, you can use both affinities, I use (O) to kill Coldsnapped XLs even more, but many players just freeze whole armies with (B) affinity.

Pure Frost already has Ironclad/Battleship/Dreadnought on T4 which are strong and cool, and if one was to decrease Northland Drakes orb requirements, then it still has to compete with Battleship and other faction options. As a common card, it has no chance here. And with it's current role, it's strong and nicely scales to early T4.

As a T3 XL slayer? It's awesome.

Edited by Dallarian
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16 hours ago, Dallarian said:

Northland Drake is already very powerful card, which literally deletes enemy XL units from the game. It's a key card in my Expert Campaign deck, and certainly does not need switch to T4. Depending on your playstyle, you can use both affinities, I use (O) to kill Coldsnapped XLs even more, but many players just freeze whole armies with (B) affinity.

Pure Frost already has Ironclad/Battleship/Dreadnought on T4 which are strong and cool, and if one was to decrease Northland Drakes orb requirements, then it still has to compete with Battleship and other faction options. As a common card, it has no chance here. And with it's current role, it's strong and nicely scales to early T4.

As a T3 XL slayer? It's awesome.

Im absolutely sure that properly balanced Tempest can replace ND, though also we can get a chance to see at once 3 Frost in PvP, which is now very bad option.
For PvP Northland Drake is very weak choice and there is no chance that we will be able to balance him for that purpose.

Edited by Loriens
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Tempest is nice to add to defensive positions where you have towers like lost converter freezing enemies. None the less i agree it is very situational and i would think just making the mode switching and maybe the movement speed a bit quicker would make it a strong card. Especially if you build a deck around it..or at least have some freeze spells in your deck. How much more dmg does it actually deal to frozen stuff?

Dunno what you are planning with the northland drakes but they are awesome as they are for 3 frost. Give them iceshields and maybe the santa healing skill and they are a great option for t3 pure frosty. Of course they are not spitfires but that is an ultrarare and it should be at least a bit stronger

Edited by shroomion
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