Battleship - on speed and shield change

[IceKin]

Hello there fellow skylords!

Just read the new proposed balance changes and i'm pretty happy that battleship will have some love!

I really like the idea of speed buff when shield is applied, but I also think that having to cast shield on battleship (pretty useless on T4  unless you have 2.5k shield as Avatar of Frost) to have a speed buff feel like a stretch. Basically you waste a shield card on T4 (or a unit to cast a shield) for speed buff, while the shield mechanic should have its value on the shield itself.

I tought two more elegant way to solve this issue.

One is adding a passive ability that increase speed when out of combat. Like crew focus on sailing when out of combat, and on cannons when in combat. It makes sense to me, and fix the slow issue without any other complication. I guess the same speed of Northland drake is ok (not swift but still more fast than other t4 frost units, to regain field after battleship exit from combat). Maybe a 7 seconds delay before switching from "comabat" to "sailing" mode could be added.

Another way is a bit more complex but more typical. It consists in adding "Glaciel Shield" ability to upgrade 1 of battleship, like Mountaineer card.

When out of combat:

*the battleship regenerate every 12 sec a 500 hp shield.

* While shield is active, the battleship gain increased speed. 

These change will:

*Grant a better usability of the card in pve

*No spell/unit waste just to gain speed buff 

*Not overlap with other fast ship (f.e. spirit ship) because when engaged it slows down

*Make more tanky balancing low dps

Now, some number work should be done. If you grant small shield, f.e. 500 points or less, it's totally useless in T4 fights but gain some advantage over lots of small units (like every T4 should have). The compensation could be keeping cost at 300 (since it's planned to lower cost to 250) or a small decrease in HP.

The battleship usually ends in second line when fights starts (unless some particular pve maps) BUT the increased speed make them to be on first line when fights starts, so having a shield could also be selfbalanced (it will take first hits and deplete shields, unless you micro them).

Hope i throw few nice ideas in the pot!

Edited December 26, 2020 by IceKin

[Dallarian]

2 hours ago, IceKin said:

Hello there fellow skylords!

Just read the new proposed balance changes and i'm pretty happy that battleship will have some love!

I really like the idea of speed buff when shield is applied, but I also think that having to cast shield on battleship (pretty useless on T4  unless you have 2.5k shield as Avatar of Frost) to have a speed buff feel like a stretch. Basically you waste a shield card on T4 (or a unit to cast a shield) for speed buff, while the shield mechanic should have its value on the shield itself.

I tought two more elegant way to solve this issue.

One is adding a passive ability that increase speed when out of combat. Like crew focus on sailing when out of combat, and on cannons when in combat. It makes sense to me, and fix the slow issue without any other complication. I guess the same speed of Northland drake is ok (not swift but still more fast than other t4 frost units, to regain field after battleship exit from combat). Maybe a 7 seconds delay before switching from "comabat" to "sailing" mode could be added.

Another way is a bit more complex but more typical. It consists in adding "Glaciel Shield" ability to upgrade 1 of battleship, like Mountaineer card.

When out of combat:

*the battleship regenerate every 12 sec a 500 hp shield.

* While shield is active, the battleship gain increased speed. 

These change will:

*Grant a better usability of the card in pve

*No spell/unit waste just to gain speed buff 

*Not overlap with other fast ship (f.e. spirit ship) because when engaged it slows down

*Make more tanky balancing low dps

Now, some number work should be done. If you grant small shield, f.e. 500 points or less, it's totally useless in T4 fights but gain some advantage over lots of small units (like every T4 should have). The compensation could be keeping cost at 300 (since it's planned to lower cost to 250) or a small decrease in HP.

The battleship usually ends in second line when fights starts (unless some particular pve maps) BUT the increased speed make them to be on first line when fights starts, so having a shield could also be selfbalanced (it will take first hits and deplete shields, unless you micro them).

Hope i throw few nice ideas in the pot!

Shield is absolutely powerful now!

Winter Witch has been redesigned as well, making it a very powerful support unit - and not as expensive as before. Combine those two and you'll have a great combo.

As far as I remember, with Age of Ice you can have total length of shield around 60-90 seconds, pretty decent and you can easily recast it with Winter Witch. I was using Battleship on Dwarven Riddle on Adv already to carry others (in slow mode), and Area Ice Shield is almost always in my deck, so it is a great improvement to me.

 

Feel free to try those changes on Testing Server. Shrine of Martyr gets redesign and is very powerful as well.

Howver, I like your "out of combat" mechanics - but it will be very problematic on Campaign maps to quickly pass by enemy towers if you're going to specified location (imagine forgetting about one anti air turret around). Putting shield mechanics still is a powerful buff.

[chickennoodler]

17 hours ago, Dallarian said:

Winter Witch has been redesigned as well, making it a very powerful support unit - and not as expensive as before. Combine those two and you'll have a great combo.

As far as I remember, with Age of Ice you can have total length of shield around 60-90 seconds, pretty decent and you can easily recast it with Winter Witch. I was using Battleship on Dwarven Riddle on Adv already to carry others (in slow mode), and Area Ice Shield is almost always in my deck, so it is a great improvement to me.

 

 

I have really strong doubts new Battleship will be a smash hit card with these changes. In case anyone missed it, here are my thoughts.

---------------------------------

Battleship orb change is now in restrictive 4 blue orbs. Without enlightenment, this essentially means Frost has a dead XL flying cardslot now only useable in pure frost. Like Dreadnaught, new battleship will likely see almost no usage except with Enlightenment.

Frost as a whole just lost it's only XL flying creature card. And, there's more.

------------------------------------

The card slot efficiency to maximize the new Battleship abilities.... is terrible. Much like the Frost Crystal tower, It takes additional slots just to get a slow unit at Flyer fast speeds on equal footing to pretty much anything else. A handicap.

 

2-5 slots required Minimum to make Battleship fast shield strat feasible.

+1 to 3 Ice shield creating card slots

+1 Ice age (Probably needed to use well, most people will still likely cut this anyways.)

+1 The Zoom zoom zoom battleship itself.

-------------------------------------------------

If i need 4 blue orbs to run a Battleship, 2-5 card slots for Battleship speed ability usage and I still need to power income dump for shields repeatedly per individual Battleship just to be on par with the other Flying t3, t4 units that I remind you I don't need to micro. Why would I do it? I would go Wyrm, Spirit ship, Skyelf Commander, Fallen Skyelf, Bahir, Swamp Drake or stick to ground for Pure Frost like Iron clads and Dreadnaughts on .

-----------------------------------------------------------

Then there's barrage. I am completely convinced Barrage spamming Battleships like inferior worldbreaker guns will be what most people will actually try using the New Battleships versions for because that's cool. The problem being these card niches are infamously held by Worldbreaker guns and Constructs, which Frost has much better synergies and better orb requires with hands down.

[Dallarian]

@chickennoodler
I already (on testing server) got rid of Ironclads from my deck to make space for Battleships, and finishing rPvE 9 was both easier and more fun for me with the deck.

In terms of rPvE you need just one shield generating card, which is Winter Witch, and now it is more worth to take Winter Witch instead of The Warden of North. From rPvE I see that I am not only person who plays pure Frost, so I disagree that Dreadnoughts are used only in decks with Enlightment.

Can you remind me please, what are current decks that make use of Battleship? For defending purposes Construct usually is better due to knockback to XL units, so seeing Battleship there is a bit rare. I did see Construct/Ravenheart/Battleship/Corsair based deck on Slave Master Expert and it did okay, except we lost a map because the army could not catch up with Mo. But yes, with Nether portal the deck was actually cool, and it will be significantly weaker. What other decks are going to be ruined?

In my view the change allows a card that is almost not used at all, to stay next to other T4 XL cards. Area Ice Shield is usually present in decks, with redesigned Winterwitch Age of Ice is not even necessary, but basicly a deck based on Battleship is different - you can get rid of some elements and add more support to Battleship if you want to.

 

Pure Frost Battleship is a card, that for 260 power has statistics L 3750/XL 5520 or L 5125/XL 5520 with barrage vs single ground target (and more vs multiple targets), making it the most powerful flying unit in the game. Lost Spirit Ship is known for it's ease of use, but compared to Giant Wyrm, the Battleship is clearly superior choice when it comes to dealing with ground troops.

If the cost of accessing it, I have to play Pure Frost and add one card for 60/ability for 125 to get access to it as a viable, mobile card, I am very fine with paying that price.

Using Battleship instead of Ironclad decreases total HP pool in the party, but with support of Winter Witch, which right now appear anyway, it should not be a problem, and significantly increases aoe DPS, at the same power cost, and while losing long-range knockback to small and medium units. You can go easy way and be powerful, or can go micro way (which is more fun for me) and become even more powerful.

 

Keep in mind that pure Frost never was meta deck before and is not supposed to be one. And people play it anyway. Now it is a bit more flexible and stronger.

 

[Ypulse]

where are these changes listed?

[LEBOVIN]

the pure frost requirements have been lifted weeks ago...

We refer to tentative test server iterations,  wait until the final patch notes are released in the Next few days 

Edited December 28, 2020 by LEBOVIN

[Ypulse]

I dont understand these changes on battleship and winter witch. these cards are slow and cant keep up in rpve at all. what they try to solve?

Or the goal is regular pve maps?

 she is so slow cant keep up with any army, except supporting construct,battleship. 

I mean it solves the problem about WW being locked out from freezing with auto attacks which is nice+better stat ratio, which is nice, but as army composition for pure frost, it doesnt change anything. giving speed buff on battleship so it can fly away sometimes faster from main army is also nice, but it wont change army compositons i think.

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Ypulse

[chickennoodler]

On 12/27/2020 at 5:44 PM, LEBOVIN said:

the pure frost requirements have been lifted weeks ago...

We refer to tentative test server iterations,  wait until the final patch notes are released in the Next few days 

Thank you Lebovin. That is good news to me.

 

 

On 12/27/2020 at 3:58 AM, Dallarian said:

@chickennoodler
 

Can you remind me please, what are current decks that make use of Battleship? For defending purposes Construct usually is better due to knockback to XL units, so seeing Battleship there is a bit rare. I did see Construct/Ravenheart/Battleship/Corsair based deck on Slave Master Expert and it did okay, except we lost a map because the army could not catch up with Mo. But yes, with Nether portal the deck was actually cool, and it will be significantly weaker. What other decks are going to be ruined?

 

 

On defensive, having an XL sized dmg air camp option is still better than none. With dmg reduc like Shell, Ward of North, that blue orb t3 50% dmg reduc tower and healing, some maps it's useful because Ai will spam ground units through and die repeatedly. It's also 1 of only 2 air units that can siege range towers, inefficiently with ability but still a thing.

 

Yes, it's a meme unit currently, but a meme is better than having no XL flying at 2 frost orb. I'm just saying the new battleship is also a meme if 4 frost orb.

 

Lebovin mentioned 4 blue orb requirement removed though so what I thought before is outdated because as long as it's not pure frost req, any battleship changes are good. At 2 blue orb count, new battleship might stand a chance.

Edited December 30, 2020 by chickennoodler
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