Twilight Red Green Splash deck role gaps

[chickennoodler]

Hello, just wanted to post what I noticed some weaknesses for Twilight Card selection overall in this thread as a mirror.

 

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Twilight Tier 2 Has the weakest Tower selection in the game. Which Defensively, makes them worse than even just going pure Green and Pure Fire in Tier 2.

 

Makeshift turret (Tier 1)

Stranglehold( Good but not really a true damage dealer alone)

And Infected Tower, A pretty subpar to weak tower with no Knock back intended for Support use.

Mark of the Keeper (Not a Tower, and Expensive BFP wise anyways because everyone wants one when they start out.)

 

Tier 2 Fire has some Okay to not so good Towers, but it doesn't matter, they're all 2 FIre ORb restricted.

Tier 2 Green has no Towers except Living Tower, which is Two Green ORb Restricted.

 

Now, how do most people get around this? In 4 RPVE, they don't. They just smash through using Mine. In Solo high difficulty RPVE, my guess how most people get around this is by taking the easy route and NOT CHOOSING TIER 2 Red Green Twilight start. If they choose Tier 2 Twilight, my second guess is again, they use Spells or Go All in and smash instead of defending. Or the third option is to Heavily Lean on Tier 1 cards and towers and Archers defend and then use the time to build units.

 

Or they could try using the Root System, and Tier 1 Tree Spirits? Because the Tier 2 Root System Tree is TWO GREEN ORB RESTRICTED. NOOOOOOO!!!!!

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Twilight Tier 2 Lacks A Medium Swift Unit. Or Ranged unit for that matter.

This is like some sort of Raptor like card. EA in fact probably intended to release this card easy, because the assets are in the Mission Behind Enemy Lines.

 

TIer 2 Twilight also lacks some sort of Squad Archer or Medium sized Ranged unit.

I'm pretty Sure these were supposed to be like those Twilight master Archers in Soultree, Twilight Wind Weavers in the Forge,  or some sort of Caster that deals ranged damage etc, but they didn't release before game ended.

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Twilight Tier 3 Doesn't have any good Large sized Ranged Units, Flying or casters etc

 

Yeah, we could do with some sort of Large or XL sized Twilight Ranged unit. This is a pretty weak slot for Twilight as well. Most people just stuff DeepCoil Worm or Magma Thrower. Almost No one uses Twilight Hag. We could probably do nicely to have something at least, like a shitty Common reskin like a Twilight Deep Coil Worm, Construct, Core Dredge or some sort of Floatey Slow Magma Fiend like unit.

 

Twilight Tier 3 most probably needs Flying units and some Casters the most. No, Swamp Drake for Twilight doesn't count, Would be nice if they had their own equivalent to reward going Twilight etc. But Twilight Tier 3 Most needs Casters.

 

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Twilight Tier 4 Would be nice to have more stuff.

 

They have Three Creatures, One spell, No casters etc. Oh well, This is really low priority, but like Pure StoneKin and Pure Lost colors, they don't really have anything to reward going pure Twilight besides Two Melee units etc.

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Twilight overall lacks an Overall theme.

 

Thanks EA.

 

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....... Because Transformation as a Mechanic sucks so No on uses it. It probably eventually needs some sort of Cost changes or Reworks.

 

Overall requiring Cards to Transform in order to get their Full effects is Janky. Because. GREEN HAS A 25% POWER discount for Summoning Creatures. MAKING THEIR EXCLUSIVE COLOR SPLASH THEMED GROUP USE MORE POWER TO DO THE SAME THING IS DAFT.

 

EA's solution was to try to force people to transform by tying it to the mechanics of the cards themselves. Twilight minions give Attack Bonuses for transforming into Cthulu, Vile Blood Farts after Transforming and it Heals or Burns people. The main problem is that these transform mechanics ARE DOUBLE COSTED. If you transform Twilight Mins into Cthulu, well. . . . .Cthulu doesn't give you anything for Transforming back into Twilight Minion. In fact, he wants to die so bad, he named himself Slaver and blows himself up when he dies.

 

This means, to reset and get your Twilight Minion back so you can transform and do the attack bonus again, you either summon a NEW ONE, or you take another loss and Transform him back. Which, btw, is way more expensive no matter how you efficiently plan who to transform into, than just not transforming because you get 25% OFF FOR USING NORMAL SUMMONING IF YOU HAVE BREEDING GROUNDS. THE COLOR GREEN'S MOST FAMOUS Power Manipulation card.

 

Oh and to add insult, Transforming still requires Card Charges to transform into that unit. You don't even save Card charges for using the Transform Mechanic some guy at EA dreamed up. The only benefit of having less bound power and Void Return is Very hard to calculate because you're wasting WAY more power overall transforming.

Edited June 13, 2020 by chickennoodler

[Treim]

14 hours ago, chickennoodler said:

Hello, just wanted to post what I noticed some weaknesses for Twilight Card selection overall in this thread as a mirror.

 

---------------------------------

Twilight Tier 2 Has the weakest Tower selection in the game. Which Defensively, makes them worse than even just going pure Green and Pure Fire in Tier 2.

 

Makeshift turret (Tier 1)

Stranglehold( Good but not really a true damage dealer alone)

And Infected Tower, A pretty subpar to weak tower with no Knock back intended for Support use.

Mark of the Keeper (Not a Tower, and Expensive BFP wise anyways because everyone wants one when they start out.)

Primal Defender

Mortar Tower

Tier 2 Fire has some Okay to not so good Towers, but it doesn't matter, they're all 2 FIre ORb restricted.

Tier 2 Green has no Towers except Living Tower, which is Two Green ORb Restricted.

 

Now, how do most people get around this? In 4 RPVE, they don't. They just smash through using Mine. In Solo high difficulty RPVE, my guess how most people get around this is by taking the easy route and NOT CHOOSING TIER 2 Red Green Twilight start. If they choose Tier 2 Twilight, my second guess is again, they use Spells or Go All in and smash instead of defending. Or the third option is to Heavily Lean on Tier 1 cards and towers and Archers defend and then use the time to build units.

rPvE as a game mode is not designed for towers to be played generally, obviously there are certain decks and situations where they are good - funnily Infected Tower is one of the only relevant towers for rPvE as it is necassary for the Zerg deck. The only other ones are Worldbreaker (for Worldbreaker gun deck), Blaster Cannon (for rPvE 10 against Lost Souls and Windhunters at t3/z4), Mark of the Keeper (for level 10 rPvE as t1 defense), Rioter's Retreat (for t3/t4 attack with Commandos); Altar of Chaos (for playing Lost Souls with Lost Spirit Ship green heal). And thats it, the only deck where the tower is actually used as a defense is the Mark of the Keeper at level 10. Everything else is either used offensively (Wbg, Blaster Cannon, Rioter's Retreat) and/or because of their effect (Infected Tower, Altar of Chaos, Rioter's Retreat).
--> Rating towers for their useage in rPvE is essentially giving all towers a F grade, with the few exceptions above a C- to D grade because they are situationally usefull.

 

Besides that, yes Twilight has a very weak tower t2 game but t2 tower's are never necassary. As long as you have access to 2 decent towers in either t1 and t2 or t3 you can always play around it. Flame tower, Mind weaver and Twilight Bombard while all not exceptional are still decent enough towers to make work.

Or they could try using the Root System, and Tier 1 Tree Spirits? Because the Tier 2 Root System Tree is TWO GREEN ORB RESTRICTED. NOOOOOOO!!!!!

---------------------------------------------------

Twilight Tier 2 Lacks A Medium Swift Unit. Or Ranged unit for that matter.

This is like some sort of Raptor like card. EA in fact probably intended to release this card easy, because the assets are in the Mission Behind Enemy Lines.

 

TIer 2 Twilight also lacks some sort of Squad Archer or Medium sized Ranged unit.

I'm pretty Sure these were supposed to be like those Twilight master Archers in Soultree, Twilight Wind Weavers in the Forge,  or some sort of Caster that deals ranged damage etc, but they didn't release before game ended.

---------------------------------------------

Twilight Tier 3 Doesn't have any good Large sized Ranged Units, Flying or casters etc

 

Yeah, we could do with some sort of Large or XL sized Twilight Ranged unit. This is a pretty weak slot for Twilight as well. Most people just stuff DeepCoil Worm or Magma Thrower. Almost No one uses Twilight Hag. We could probably do nicely to have something at least, like a shitty Common reskin like a Twilight Deep Coil Worm, Construct, Core Dredge or some sort of Floatey Slow Magma Fiend like unit.

 

Twilight Tier 3 most probably needs Flying units and some Casters the most. No, Swamp Drake for Twilight doesn't count, Would be nice if they had their own equivalent to reward going Twilight etc. But Twilight Tier 3 Most needs Casters.

 

------------------------------------

Twilight Tier 4 Would be nice to have more stuff.

 

They have Three Creatures, One spell, No casters etc. Oh well, This is really low priority, but like Pure StoneKin and Pure Lost colors, they don't really have anything to reward going pure Twilight besides Two Melee units etc.

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Twilight overall lacks an Overall theme.

Imo Twilight as a faction misses a theme as in a usefull ability, the cards available to that faction do play out nicely though. High damage units and spells paired with cc, damage reduction and heal spells. While I agree that there are parts where a pure Twilight deck will struggle in terms of especially units in t2, with only really Deathglider and Vileblood being (semi) viable, and t3 with only really Twilight Creeper being good, you do discount for all the options fire and nature do offer you in terms of spell support and splashable units like Gladiatrix, and Skyfire drake that synergize very well with mentioned support but otherwise can be tricky to play in their pure counterparts. As you do seem to focus a lot on rPvE, Twilight there is one of the most beginner friendly decks in terms of difficulty while having Medium to high carry potential for when your team fails you again.

If you want to make pure Twilight more viable i would suggest first buffing most fo the available cards out of irrelevancy instead of introducing new cards like the suggested archer t2 squad and you end will end up with a decently strengthed faction in terms of units. Note that Twilight is not the only faction that would struggle with these restrictions though, just imagine Lost souls without Frenetic Assault or Infect, Bandits only really has Commandos and Rioter's Retreat in t2 and barely anything to support Slavemaster in t3 without shadow support. I don't think EA ever intended to make these mixed factions completely independent from the factions they originate from, otherwisie there are way to few cards in all of these factions.

Thanks EA.

 

----------------------------

....... Because Transformation as a Mechanic sucks so No on uses it. It probably eventually needs some sort of Cost changes or Reworks.

 

Overall requiring Cards to Transform in order to get their Full effects is Janky. Because. GREEN HAS A 25% POWER discount for Summoning Creatures. MAKING THEIR EXCLUSIVE COLOR SPLASH THEMED GROUP USE MORE POWER TO DO THE SAME THING IS DAFT.

 

EA's solution was to try to force people to transform by tying it to the mechanics of the cards themselves. Twilight minions give Attack Bonuses for transforming into Cthulu, Vile Blood Farts after Transforming and it Heals or Burns people. The main problem is that these transform mechanics ARE DOUBLE COSTED. If you transform Twilight Mins into Cthulu, well. . . . .Cthulu doesn't give you anything for Transforming back into Twilight Minion. In fact, he wants to die so bad, he named himself Slaver and blows himself up when he dies.

 

This means, to reset and get your Twilight Minion back so you can transform and do the attack bonus again, you either summon a NEW ONE, or you take another loss and Transform him back. Which, btw, is way more expensive no matter how you efficiently plan who to transform into, than just not transforming because you get 25% OFF FOR USING NORMAL SUMMONING IF YOU HAVE BREEDING GROUNDS. THE COLOR GREEN'S MOST FAMOUS Power Manipulation card.

 

Oh and to add insult, Transforming still requires Card Charges to transform into that unit. You don't even save Card charges for using the Transform Mechanic some guy at EA dreamed up. The only benefit of having less bound power and Void Return is Very hard to calculate because you're wasting WAY more power overall transforming.