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macabi

Converting Gold to BFP and Vice Versa

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If you want me to support any way of conversion it will need to be highly asymetric, more than "1 :bf: -> 200 G, 1000 G -> 1 :bf:" mentioned earlier, or "value" of gold or :bf: will need to change. (feel free to write your own BFP proposal)

9 hours ago, Ponni said:

What is this "borrowed card" thing? Do you have any details to share on this and how it will work?

No, feel free to specifi it in your own BFP proposal.

5 hours ago, Ponni said:

There are 66 ultra rare cards in my collection

No guarantees here, but what if we add more cards?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Darian DelFord said:

Granted I have been around BF since 2008.   However currently my deck level is only 40 I think.  I can still farm gold quite easily if I so choose.

I am sorry, but not acknowledging problems for players other than yourself is not really helping, right? Not everyone will have the knowledge on how to do this initially, so why say NO to something that would help new players?

// Ponni

5 hours ago, Kubik said:

If you want me to support any way of conversion it will need to be highly asymetric, more than "1 :bf: -> 200 G, 1000 G -> 1 :bf:" mentioned earlier, or "value" of gold or :bf: will need to change. (feel free to write your own BFP proposal)

No, feel free to specifi it in your own BFP proposal.

No guarantees here, but what if we add more cards?

I am really not following what you are trying to say here Kubik, are you then referring to "solutions" which will solve all problems with suggestions you want me to put in? Well, I have a BFP proposal already, which is, as I mentioned earlier pretty much still uncommented in the BFP thread...

Also, with more cards, more boosters needs to be opened, right?

// Ponni

 

Edited by Ponni

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I do not think people should have all the cards in year or two. (There will be some exceptions that will have them in few week or sooner)

If there will be much more cards it will solve the problem with players leaving, because they have everything, but makes your problem (not being able to have everything) worse.

Can you link to BFP proposal you writw,? I either miss it, or there was nothing today about it.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Kubik said:

I do not think people should have all the cards in year or two. (There will be some exceptions that will have them in few week or sooner)

If there will be much more cards it will solve the problem with players leaving, because they have everything, but makes your problem (not being able to have everything) worse.

Can you link to BFP proposal you writw,? I either miss it, or there was nothing today about it.

Here you go, your previous comment on this was the following:

"bad thing, even with current rates it is possible to get most cards in less than month"

Well, we disagree on what would be good for this game, it seems you think limiting the gold, BFP and access to cards is the way forward and I the opposite. In fact, I am all for a complete unlock of the game as you might remember. I do acknowledge power in deciding way forward is with you, but, please consider this:

The thing you are afraid of is that people will leave once everything has been accomplished, to me that does not really matter then if they leave within 2 weeks or 6 months, they will ultimately leave, right? To catch those newbies (or veterans for that matter too...) with potential to stay even after achieving everything should be key here. That, to me, is not done with limiting access to the good things. Also, claiming it should take years to accomplish things just confirms my worries, after the reset this will still be a game made for the experienced guys, eg. those who know their way around the cards, AH and map strategies. Not the newbies. 

// Peter

Edited by Ponni
typo

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so it was answered.

With that rates we can also close the AH after week or two.

It would limit acess to :bf: for many players, because they do not play that long.

Have you ever play any other card game? (preferably Magic the Gathering, so I can use examples from there)

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8 hours ago, Kubik said:

I do not think people should have all the cards in year or two. (There will be some exceptions that will have them in few week or sooner)

If there will be much more cards it will solve the problem with players leaving, because they have everything, but makes your problem (not being able to have everything) worse.

Can you link to BFP proposal you writw,? I either miss it, or there was nothing today about it.

Kubik,

I am playing strategy games since 2002.

From my experience, when a new game comes out, Online games are very busy for 3-6 months and then you have fewer and fewer players.

Players move on to the next game within months.

So chances are most players won't stick around for a year or two.

Therefore there is no reason to worry about them getting all the cards during that time period.

Of course, you are welcome to keep adding new cards via existing skins and make them all rare and Ultra.

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2 hours ago, Kubik said:

so it was answered.

With that rates we can also close the AH after week or two.

It would limit acess to :bf: for many players, because they do not play that long.

Have you ever play any other card game? (preferably Magic the Gathering, so I can use examples from there)

Answered? Not really, but it sums up most of the discussion here anyhow, you do not want a discussion unless it is on your terms. That is quite clear, you have all answers already. So, I look forward to the inevitable reset, which is a good thing. Then there will be thousands and thousands of players after the reset. Then there will be millions and millions of boosters opened. And all cards will be available to buy within weeks on the AH, but it will also take years and years to collect all cards, which is a good thing. Shall I continue with all the good ideas you have or is the above enough to sell the game to new players?

For the record, yes, I have played MtG, quite a lot but a long time ago. Honestly I do not compare the two games as they are completely different from each other. The most obvious differences are that MtG is only a PvP game and it is not really a real time strat (in fact it is turn based) game you can play on your computer with live troops and spells on a map...but I will leave this further uncommented as I see no point in comparing a real card collecting game with this "card collecting" game.

I am out of this forum for good as it is not good for my heart (unless it is for a card distribution event or such which I might very well initiate at some point), but I will still play the game and help as many newbies as I can.

@macabi Or anyone else for that matter. If you see me online in the game, just ping, and I will be happy to help with some PvE maps to grind some gold for you. 

// Ponni

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where I said: "thousands and thousands of players", and "millions and millions of boosters"?

It must be very long since you played MtG because it is no longer PvP only.
I never played MtG over 5 months in row, because I just managed to build my deck win some games with it, and if there was no new edition by that time I stoped playing because there was nothing else to do.

If you want to go to technical details both games are turn based if you go to toutnament there will be someone checking your time in MtG, in Battleforge server is checking your time, and if you do nothing you just pass the turn.

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2 hours ago, Kubik said:

:thinking: why new when there is already over 5000 cards in the game

You mean 500+ cards, don't you?

Actually it is way less than that once you remove duplicates because of affinities. ;)

@Ponni, 

Thank you Ponni, I can use all the help I can get to accumulate more Gold for these expensive level 3 Ultra upgrades.

This game is super stingy. :'(

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Kubik said:

where I said: "thousands and thousands of players", and "millions and millions of boosters"?

It must be very long since you played MtG because it is no longer PvP only.
I never played MtG over 5 months in row, because I just managed to build my deck win some games with it, and if there was no new edition by that time I stoped playing because there was nothing else to do.

If you want to go to technical details both games are turn based if you go to toutnament there will be someone checking your time in MtG, in Battleforge server is checking your time, and if you do nothing you just pass the turn.

Sorry to break my promise but just had to respond to this nonsense.

Thousands:

Comment on Thousands: According to you it is pessimitic with 5000 players joining after the reset, hence thousands.

Millions:

 

Comment on Millions: According to you 66000 booster will be opened in 3 days by the 5000 players joining after the reset. As there will be 15000 booster for free it means during a 3 day period roughly 50000 booster will be opened, that means in 20 days 1 (one) million booster will have been opened, in 40 days it means 2 (two) millions booster will have been opened, in 60 days 3 (three) million booster have been opened...in year that would be ~18 (eigtheen) million boosters opened, hence millions and millions. (Please see edit comment below!)

Or did you not say these things?

Regarding MtG, I don't think you understand what turnbased means, try and cast a MtG Sorcery or Enchantment/Artifact card or even a creature card (some creatures actually can be cast in real time but the vast majority does not) in real time at the table playing with the cards, you could with an Interrupt or Instant, but hey you seem to be the expert on this so what do I know.

Also, you haven't understood a thing. This is not for me, suprisingly enough I am not an egoistic maniac only thinking of myself. As I have stated earlier I will be fine whatever measures will be taken, but will the game? According to you it will, with all those thousands of players and millions of boosters opened.

There is no need to say anything further, now I rest my case...Godspeed!

// Ponni

Edit: Was so angry and tired so I completely miscalulated the millions above...it should of course be 60 days for 1 million boosters...which in a year would mean ~ 6 million boosters, still valid though for the millions and millions comment. Truly sorry for the miscalc...

Edited by Ponni
see above

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21 hours ago, Kubik said:

No, feel free to specifi it in your own BFP proposal.

I remember a long time ago talking about renting pre-made decks.....

is this something you guys are considering doing? I really think it's a good idea :)

 

Back on topic, instead of exchanging gold for bfp (although I would also be fine with a really skewed exchange rate, like 1000 gold for 1 bfp but 1 bfp for 100 gold), we could implement a gold sink. For example, selling a promo card for 10,000,000 gold or something really high, so you'd really have to grind for a long time to get it.

 

Also, in regards to players having stuff to accomplish, I think more achievements would be good for that.

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17 hours ago, Ponni said:

I am sorry, but not acknowledging problems for players other than yourself is not really helping, right? Not everyone will have the knowledge on how to do this initially, so why say NO to something that would help new players?

// Ponni

 

 

The problem is if you have a conversion for something as easy to gold to obtain, then the markets will get whacked very quickly. 

Quite frankly all you have to do is use you tube.  Just about every map has been dissected with just about any deck imaginable.  In Fact  I think most have been beat on expert with merely the free to play deck and the tutorial deck.

Having any type of conversion is a bad bad idea. 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Kubik said:

I do not think people should have all the cards in year or two. (There will be some exceptions that will have them in few week or sooner)

If there will be much more cards it will solve the problem with players leaving, because they have everything, but makes your problem (not being able to have everything) worse.

Can you link to BFP proposal you writw,? I either miss it, or there was nothing today about it.

 

I do not agree with this either.  Taking 2 years to get all the cards will make me lose interest quicker than having all the cards.

 

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"You mean 500+ cards, don't you?" no I mean 5032 cards

Sorry language barrier I said those things I just misunderstand your formulation, and think you multiply them "thousands and thousands of players" like 1000s*1000s=1000000s which I did not say.

Yes pramde decks are an option, that anyone can put to his BFP proposal, I do not know what was the technical limitation, that make them impossible before I joined.

2 hours ago, Darian DelFord said:

I do not agree with this either.  Taking 2 years to get all the cards will make me lose interest quicker than having all the cards.

Why you need all cards? Did you ever have access to all MtG cards? (There are online game that allow you to, or you can just print the cards yourself, not allowed on most places, I tried that and it was boring, copared to the colecting aspect of the game)

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1 hour ago, Kubik said:

"You mean 500+ cards, don't you?" no I mean 5032 cards

Kubik,

According to these links from the original game there are 528 cards total:

https://battleforge.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Twilight_(1st)_Edition_Cards - 201 cards

https://battleforge.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Renegade_(2nd)_Edition_Cards - 125 cards

https://battleforge.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Lost_Souls_(3rd)_Edition_Cards  - 130 cards

https://battleforge.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Amii_(4th)_Edition_Cards - 72 cards

Can you please show me what other cards we have?

I haven't seen any new cards that are not included in the links above.

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Posted (edited)

Well i would like to throw my 50cts also in here. i have been more active in the last few week/s and have read more on the forums as well and for the most part i don't see much comments from more casual players like myself (probably for good reason). I have plaid a decent amount of BF back in the EA days, not a complete noob but also not a top tier player. 

 

The last few posts that i looked into on here was a lot of back and forth about the game resetting and how BFP can be handled. And to mostly the higher players say that they want some way to  unlock everything and that you get your cards more fast. I can understand where you are coming from but there needs to be a way to earn that, lebovin said something that i liked where you could make a second profile where you have everything unlocked but cant trade or sell stuff. And i support this idea together with @Kubik post that you would need to play everything on expert first to get that.

 

So far the only reason why i would play expert in the first place is getting upgrades but since i started to be able to consistently Farm RPVE9 i can just do that because you get so much gold. Now i don't have any reason to play stuff on expert, so i don't need to make better decks so i can beat stuff on expert. so in the end i have nothing to do, and just doing things for the sake of doing isn't a great motivation for me. you can say what ever you want about EA but they know how to keep people engaged, that's why you had to get tokens from pvp or rpve if you wanted to get those max upgrades easy. And since we are getting more BFP than we had in the original BF already i don't think its a good idea to hand out even more by making Gold transfer into BFP, for that part i don't think its good that you can even sell Boosters! You can get so many boosters in just a few days when you start out playing with the achievements that the quest system has. For my part i like the Booster opening experience more then selling it but that is one of the big reasons people have 40k+ BFP just laying about. 

 

As for the reset, look at other games that consistently reset your progress, like Escape from tarkov. They do wipes so everyone starts on the same play field again so players don't have crazy good gear all the time and give people a reason to even play again, sure there are some people that would like to have everything unlocked because they don't like or don't have the time to put in the hours to get back up. But people that play a lot (streamers for example) always like it when a wipe comes around because they have a reason to play again. I know that BF is a different game with a different prospect but the problem is not that different. One of the big reasons why i enjoyed BF so much back in the days was the aspect of playing it more so i can get better cards so i can beat harder missions. Its called progression, EA didn't really handle that so well since you had to buy BFP for real money and that 1/2 BFP a day wasn't really something that was enjoyable and when people started selling BFP on 3 party sides you couldn't even get anywhere with trading. 

 

Well to summarise, i would like a progression system that keeps me in the game for long enough without handing me everything at once, that i have a reason to play harder missions, so i have a reason to make better decks. if i get access to a second profile where everything is unlocked after i beat all the expert maps would be a handy bonus but i wouldn't even use it for the most part. as far as i see it Gold earnings from rpve makes playing maps on expert obsolete and there should be something to balance that out, not more gold to upgrade things no, but the token system back in the day had its use, maybe something like that. getting cards and upgrades fast is not the way to go! unless you want to remove progression from the game then sure. The only reason this RTS is so different from other RTS games out there is the trading card aspect, you have RTS games where you can customise or use different units to change strategies but no other RTS game is unique like BF. and that is why i think this game even got revived, there is nothing out there like BF.

~Grey

PS: this is all my personal opinion

Edited by GreySha

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8 hours ago, Kubik said:

Why you need all cards? Did you ever have access to all MtG cards? (There are online game that allow you to, or you can just print the cards yourself, not allowed on most places, I tried that and it was boring, copared to the colecting aspect of the game)

Sorry to brake my promise again, but this needs to be said. Stop comparing MtG with BattleForge, because:

- MtG is turnbased and have 20000 unique cards.

- BattleForge is a real time game and have ~528 unique active cards (you state there are 5000 cards, but in game right now there is way less, right?).

The only similarity is that both games features cards, other than that there are no similarities whatsoever...you are just hurting yourself...

// Peter

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4 minutes ago, Ponni said:

Sorry to brake my promise again, but this needs to be said. Stop comparing MtG with BattleForge, because:

- MtG is turnbased and have 20000 unique cards.

- BattleForge is a real time game and have ~528 unique active cards (you state there are 5000 cards, but in game right now there is way less, right?).

The only similarity is that both games features cards, other than that there are no similarities whatsoever...you are just hurting yourself...

// Peter

i would argue that MTG and BF not only have cards in common. you have a deck building experience in both games to make a strategy, the difference in that case is that in mtg you cant build your deck to work against specific players unlike BF where you can build a deck that works directly against a mission. But working with what cards you have at hand is part of the reason why i always liked BF, limited cards are a good thing to get different strategies. People used to make videos about how you could beat maps with the starter decks because not many people had access to high end cards. The people that got the high end cards did things faster and better yah, but that's why time rankings in old BF had way more meaning because you had to ether spend lots of real life money so you could be on top with the meta strategies or you had to figure out a way to make it happen with your own limited cards.

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41 minutes ago, GreySha said:

i would argue that MTG and BF not only have cards in common. you have a deck building experience in both games to make a strategy, the difference in that case is that in mtg you cant build your deck to work against specific players unlike BF where you can build a deck that works directly against a mission. But working with what cards you have at hand is part of the reason why i always liked BF, limited cards are a good thing to get different strategies. People used to make videos about how you could beat maps with the starter decks because not many people had access to high end cards. The people that got the high end cards did things faster and better yah, but that's why time rankings in old BF had way more meaning because you had to ether spend lots of real life money so you could be on top with the meta strategies or you had to figure out a way to make it happen with your own limited cards.

True, but as you somewhat say the deck building strategies differ quite a lot, most obvious one is that mana (of one or different colors) is needed in MtG wherein BattleForge you chase wells and orbs to be able to play your cards as you have planned. Anyhow, I agree with you, building decks to fulfill a strategy is one of the best things with both games.

// Ponni

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Ponni said:

True, but as you somewhat say the deck building strategies differ quite a lot, most obvious one is that mana (of one or different colors) is needed in MtG wherein BattleForge you chase wells and orbs to be able to play your cards as you have planned. Anyhow, I agree with you, building decks to fulfill a strategy is one of the best things with both games.

// Ponni

Well using the cards you have to make a strategy is a different thing then picking a existing strategy and making a deck for that (that's how i understood your answer). i also like to follow a video and build the deck that is used but that dose not give me as much entertainment as forging a strategy myself since i don't have the cards to follow that specific video for example. it just removes a good portion of the reason to play for me, that's why i also don't play on the test server besides testing things like the new bfp system.

Edited by GreySha

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32 minutes ago, GreySha said:

Well using the cards you have to make a strategy is a different thing then picking a existing strategy and making a deck for that (that's how i understood your answer). i also like to follow a video and build the deck that is used but that dose not give me as much entertainment as forging a strategy myself since i don't have the cards to follow that specific video for example. it just removes a good portion of the reason to play for me, that's why i also don't play on the test server besides testing things like the new bfp system.

I like it both ways when it comes to building the decks, testing to see whether I can execute on a given strategy or invent my own (though most combos and ways to do things is as you have mentioned above pretty much "invented" already...however still not known by everyone). And even in some cases creating a deck just for fun, like using Satanael in BG, with his minions, that is fun but not overwhelmingly fast... :)

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obrazek.thumb.png.5f4941b4c3d2bb5b52ad14cff2dd967b.pngobrazek.thumb.png.840a9bed689765970bc556975f71dcbe.png

@macabi I am not going to post all of them it would be too long, but I marked some you might recognize, you just can not have these card in collection.

528 is wrong, I do not know which cards you miss, but when I check obtainable cards on server I get 523 excluding promos and 540 without filter.

You can check these here: https://gist.github.com/Kubikx/189d173c337e4d996382cc59b0bf7919

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37 minutes ago, Kubik said:

obrazek.thumb.png.5f4941b4c3d2bb5b52ad14cff2dd967b.pngobrazek.thumb.png.840a9bed689765970bc556975f71dcbe.png

@macabi I am not going to post all of them it would be too long, but I marked some you might recognize, you just can not have these card in collection.

528 is wrong, I do not know which cards you miss, but when I check obtainable cards on server I get 523 excluding promos and 540 without filter.

You can check these here: https://gist.github.com/Kubikx/189d173c337e4d996382cc59b0bf7919

so there are 4000+ POTENTIAL cards in the game? so enemy units or units that are not live in the game that we can't obtain.

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12 minutes ago, GreySha said:

so there are 4000+ POTENTIAL cards in the game? so enemy units or units that are not live in the game that we can't obtain.

Kubik,

Thank you for the clarification.

So the game has 5000+ internal potential cards but in reality we have 520+ cards in the game.

I wasn't aware of the internal cards that weren't published.

By the way, I don't count promos because they are duplicates of existing cards fully upgraded and fully charged.

In fact, I don't think we should even count duplicated affinity cards.

I say that because Players usually choose the card with the best affinity and ignore the other affinity card.

The question is, how hard would it be for you to turn some of the unpublished internal cards into real cards we can play with.

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Well not all promos are equal to "base" card fully upgraded :(

some of them does not seem too hard, because they have name and description in all 4 languages, some stats, some of U0, U1, U2, U3 versions are mostly missing "https://discordapp.com/channels/604212371828899851/621193491233505281" here I created channel long ago, because people was asking about that specific card, I am not 100% sure, I would need to find the conversation from back then, or check it again, but I think U2 version was working in game, and the other versions was missing some things, and have weird number (like 0,00001 less or more HP than U2)

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