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MrXLink

New BFP Earning System: Playtime and Reserves

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I noticed in the test server that you earn bfp even when you are in the forge. Isn't that gonna be abusable to farm bfp? Login for a few hours log out when reserve depleted then log back in after a few hours. Im sure some people are gonna even make macros to do this ingame. How are you going to prevent this abuse? Battlefront 2 had a huge issue of people farming credits in heroes v villian with people putting a elastic band over their controller to overcome afk detection. I fear people will do the same in maps such as bad harvest with their friends. This is the inherent problem of time based rewards where a few will find a way to abuse the system.  

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1 hour ago, Fudge said:

I noticed in the test server that you earn bfp even when you are in the forge. Isn't that gonna be abusable to farm bfp? Login for a few hours log out when reserve depleted then log back in after a few hours. Im sure some people are gonna even make macros to do this ingame. How are you going to prevent this abuse? Battlefront 2 had a huge issue of people farming credits in heroes v villian with people putting a elastic band over their controller to overcome afk detection. I fear people will do the same in maps such as bad harvest with their friends. This is the inherent problem of time based rewards where a few will find a way to abuse the system.  

You can report bugs here https://forum.skylords.eu/index.php?/forum/41-report-a-bug/ or in Discord

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Wow it seems you put a lot of work and thoughts into this. Thanks a lot! <3

The only issue I see at first glance is that people will probably be (even a little bit more) less likely to play ranked PvP because getting high actual ingame times will be relatively more efficient than before, as opposed to queuing for ranked, especially regarding the long queue times. My idea to fix this issue would be to count search time into the ingame time BUT with a factor of something like 0.1 or even less, so that playing ranked will not be relatively less efficient in comparison to everything else.

Maybe I'm just biased but there are already very few actively laddering people so I'm a bit afraid the upcoming changes could possibly even reduce my enemy amount :)

Edited by Navarr

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8 minutes ago, Navarr said:

Wow it seems you put a lot of work and thoughts into this. Thanks a lot! <3

The only issue I see at first glance is that people will probably be (even a little bit more) less likely to play ranked PvP because getting high actual ingame times will be relatively more efficient than before, as opposed to queuing for ranked, especially regarding the long queue times. My idea to fix this issue would be to count search time into the ingame-time BUT with a factor of something like 0.1 or even less, so that playing ranked will not be relatively less efficient in comparison to anything else.

Maybe I'm just biased but there are already very few actively laddering people so I'm a bit afraid the upcoming changes could possibly even reduce my enemy amount :)

@Navarr you should explain, that high ranked PvP players need to search hours for opponents with the current algorithm for the ranked PvP.

I agree that is a huge problem for ranked PvP if searching time dominates over the playing time. To prevent abuse I would recommend to only count the searching time, if it does not gets canceled.

 

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The "booster quest" is the heart of this game. I think that is why many players come into the game every day for that reason. I think the worst decision if you take this away from us.

 

The "90 mins game" quest is too much, I think. Almost for nothing'. Somehow I wasn't convinced. Let's change things, but millions of players don't play here. Keep in mind that there aren't as many online players at the same time in the game as to not get bored at a glance. I mean playing 90 minutes every day.... a little worrying in the long run

 

Edited by Baddy2G

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I'm not a huge fan of algebraic systems, but I see your narrative behind it and given the goals you want to achieve it is reasonable and seems well thought out.

What I miss a lot is the emotional aspect of the game. I know, boosters not a good way of earning BFP, but opening them is fun. Just like opening a loot box at the end of a dungeon in Diablo is fun. I think this is also true for the trading and card selling aspect of the game, with the weak link being a cumbersome AH not not the trading itself.

Your system sounds compelling and it has the elegance of a mathematical solution. But I'm not exactly convinced of the problem you want to solve. Anyway, it all comes back to player progression. If you think about it, the game has horribly little content and it the progression itself isn't as rewarding, the player experience gets stretched even thinner.

Honestly, I like to play the game casually and sometimes I played one more game just to get a booster and open it. Rewards for fixed time frames are much more tangible than following a mathematical system. But overall, I suppose it is an improvement to what we currently? It does add another layer of complexity to a game that is not beginner friendly, but I guess it is worth trying out at the very least.

I think what this really does is to take away an immediate incentive to play the game in favour of something that benefits you throughout the lifetime as a player. It's not a make-or-break change but it sounds like the piece of a puzzle that the game needs. I'm extremely concerned about the longevity of the game. What the game needs the most dire is additional player incentives. Once you made a 120 level deck of your favourite color, there is hardly anything left to do. Since this proposal doesn't change any of this, I really don't care much about it.

It also makes earn BFP a lot like earning gold. So while those resources were different things to look out for in the past, I'm afraid that effectively unifying them takes away further incentives. And why shouldn't I just waste time on some maps and alt-tab out of the game to earn BFP while I'm doing something else? Again, I don't think this addresses any major problem right now.

If I had to voice a wish, it was to have a system that is more wholistic. A reward and progression system which gives players incentives to play campaign maps on higher difficulties, make speed runs, try out pvp more casually and explore the niche aspects of the game. For me, the longtime player experience has always been grinding rpve 9 and to me it sounds like it will keep being this way (and I think after several years I've had enough of it). It's not that rpve 9 is necessarily the most fun, but it's the easiest thing to get going. Campaign missions have a lot of downtime between missions and don't let me get started on pvp lol.

On another note, what is to consider is that opening boosters fills your bank with lots of different cards, tempting players to try out new cards that they wouldn't buy on their own. So that falls away as well.

But who am I, those are just my 50 cents.

Edited by ImaginaryNumb3r

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16 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

it has the elegance of a mathematical solution

Actually it has some problems currently. The most problems are caused by the current parameters.

 

16 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

But I'm not exactly convinced of the problem you want to solve

One problem is that ~420 BFP (Booster) for 30 minutes playtime is to much. And if you play only 29 minutes you get nothing, except, that the played time is transfered to next day.

 

16 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

game has horribly little content

I disagree. It took me weeks to discover the hole game. There are every now and then new community maps.

 

16 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

and it the progression itself isn't as rewarding, the player experience gets stretched even thinner.

Yes, and one problem is, that you get absolutely nothing after you finished your dailys. (Except gold, but anyone who plays this game for a while has more gold than he needs)

 

16 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

Rewards for fixed time frames are much more tangible than following a mathematical system.

There is still the daily boost

 

16 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

It does add another layer of complexity to a game that is not beginner friendly, but I guess it is worth trying out at the very least.

Let me explain it beginner frendly: With the daily boost, you get faster. After the daily boost: the more you play, the rate of BFP will be slowed down.

 

16 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

Once you made a 120 level deck of your favourite color

For me as a speedrunner, there is no favourite color :)

 

16 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

It also makes earn BFP a lot like earning gold.

That's not correct. For earning Gold, you need to win a map. For BFP you need to play long.

 

16 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

I'm afraid that effectively unifying them takes away further incentives.

They are not getting unified, since you still need to win matches for Gold, while I agree, that taking the daily booster away, could take incentives further away. But you still get booster for achivements. I am not sure, if the fun to open a booster will increase, if you have less of them, but I think it will.

 

16 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

And why shouldn't I just waste time on some maps and alt-tab out of the game to earn BFP while I'm doing something else?

Because you will get nothing for alt-tab. Just try it, if you want to.

 

16 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

On another note, what is to consider is that opening boosters fills your bank with lots of different cards, tempting players to try out new cards that they wouldn't buy on their own. So that falls away as well. 

You still get boosters for achivements

 

16 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

But who am I, those are just my 50 cents.

I also dont know, who you are. But if you throw around with 50 cents just throw it to me. I always need that 50 cents :)

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1 hour ago, Halis said:

Let me explain it beginner frendly: With the daily boost, you get faster. After the daily boost: the more you play, the rate of BFP will be slowed down.

Let me correct that: It is supposed to be like this: With the daily boost, you get BFP faster. After the daily boost: the more you play, the more rate of BFP will slowed down. Something like this:
unknown.png


But that is how it looks now shematically currently, which is a problem:
unknown.png

The current rate for the daily boost is 250BFP/90Minutes. In some cases the rate can be 200BFP/90Minutes after the the daily boost got used up, which is not how it is intended to be.

MrXLink is well aware of that and I want to make clear, that it is just in testing right now (The testserver is call "testserver"). No parameter is final right now and I am sure MrXLink will take care of this problem.

Edited by Halis
"after the the daily boost got used up"

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I appreciate the time you have put into the reply. Now, I don't question the economics behind it

On 12/19/2019 at 1:34 PM, Halis said:

Actually it has some problems currently. The most problems are caused by the current parameters.

I never claimed anything differently. I'm sure this has been well thought out and tested and I know from firsthand experience that the final parameters always require some fine-tuning. Likely, the parameters will still be adjusted after launch. So the power of the system actually comes from its maintainability.

Quote

One problem is that ~420 BFP (Booster) for 30 minutes playtime is to much. And if you play only 29 minutes you get nothing, except, that the played time is transfered to next day.

... but can't you just make Boosters untradable? It's fair to critizie that this is a clunky system and it can be improved in a myriad of ways. But a reward system that is structured into phases isn't bad per se and gives an incentive to play just one more game to be rewarded. The real issue is that, right now, the reward is all-or-nothing on a non-trivial objective.

Quote

I disagree. It took me weeks to discover the hole game. There are every now and then new community maps.

I wasn't stating a personal opinion. Among my friends I know several people who started the game and most left immediately after they finished the campaign missions since "there was nothing more to do". Yes, there is also pvp, but this has a high entering threshold in many regards. And other things like speedrunning is really just fringe-content for the diehard fans.

I don't doubt that there are some good community maps, but accessibility is just as important as quality.

Quote

Yes, and one problem is, that you get absolutely nothing after you finished your dailys. (Except gold, but anyone who plays this game for a while has more gold than he needs)

... so, I wonder, is that being worked on?

Quote

There is still the daily boost

I completely understood that part. My original point was that I'm afraid of the concept not working so well a pull-factor that improves player motivation. Since getting a dynamic amount of BFP can't be as tangible than getting a virtual box that you can open.

Quote

Let me explain it beginner frendly: With the daily boost, you get faster. After the daily boost: the more you play, the rate of BFP will be slowed down.

 I understood the concept by a 100%. But I'm confident that at the very least not a 100% of the playerbase is going to understand it.

Quote

For me as a speedrunner, there is no favourite color :)

I absolutely believe you, but most people I know ingame have one. A good reason RTS games have different factions to begin with is that everybody can choose one or more playstyle they like. Which is also Battleforge's ultimate selling point. I personally can't stand being forced to play one way over another and I just can't stand the slowness of frost.

I try to be hopeful that the balancing process is going to fix/mitigate the issue. In theory, Battleforge offers so many cards to choose from but in reality a vast majority is useless or sub-average. Sure, you can get by with some random cards that you find aesthetically (or financially) appealing, but that only goes so far. You simply need an optimized deck to win higher difficulties (and I don't even mean the broken stuff like LSS or Amii Monument).

With more valid cards, everybody would win, even speedrunners.

Btw. I enjoyed the GDC talk Pillars of Eternity and Proper Attribute Tuning, if you are into that stuff. It's only partially applicable to Battleforge, but the game also suffers from the divide between "optimal" and "valid" decks.

Quote

That's not correct. For earning Gold, you need to win a map. For BFP you need to play long.

Yes, it is technically not the same, but on average both resources will correlate. It was more a critique on the resource system as a whole and I've seen other games tackle this wonderfully by making you play different parts of the game for different resources. But that is a whole topic by itself...

Quote

They are not getting unified, since you still need to win matches for Gold, while I agree, that taking the daily booster away, could take incentives further away. But you still get booster for achivements. I am not sure, if the fun to open a booster will increase, if you have less of them, but I think it will.

I think it depends on the drop rate of boosters and, ultimately, how many cards will be changed into something valid. Given all the crap cards, I'm afraid making boosters rarer just makes disappointments more bittersweet.

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In the post you've said this:
 

Quote

This system is implemented to make zero distinguishing factors between newcomers and veterans, or PvP and PvE alike, and gives a lower sense of urgency, time pressure, or fear of missing out on points, benefiting those who don't have as much time, want/need to take breaks, have to work, etc. 

In my opinion this is kinda invalid. Dailiy quests and refilling reserve for sure GIVE you sense of urgency. Urgency to log in every day just to use your reserve and punish people that want to grind more.
For example take a look at a person that works like crazy from monday to friday, but has whole saturday and sunday free. Once he runs out of reserves he doesn't get anything extra for just grinding more.

 

Personally I think there should be any flat rate for grinding even after your reserve got depleted, otherwise there is just no point in grinding more and progression based people would just do the dailies, use the reserve and log out. Having literally nothing extra for long griding sessions feels really bad and it's not rewarding to the players that put more effort than others into the game. Basically saying to the player: "Ok that's enough, now log out, because you will not get anything extra for playing longer."

Having lower bfp rate after reserves has been depleted is ok, but making it literally worthless to keep grinding instead of taking a break is just off.

 

The other thing lets say there you have 2 players. Player A that wants  to commit a lot of time into the game and Player B that just uses up reserves and does dailies. Player B is really lucky and opens a lot of expensive cards while Player A gets all the aweful cards. Now. Normally Player A would catch up just by playing more, but there is no such way and basically makes catching up luck based. Also players that start playing later will never be able to catch up to anyone who clears these goals just by playing more which just locks them in "never be able to catch up" state.

Also if you limit bfp earnings for more time investing players then just sitting in te marketplace and just trading cards there will be the way to earn bfps, because you've used up the reserves.

Edited by rhynos
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21 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

that the final parameters always require some fine-tuning

We are not taking here about fine-tuning. That parameters are off factors higher that 2.

 

22 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

Likely, the parameters will still be adjusted after launch. So the power of the system actually comes from its maintainability.

No, the plan is to have the final parameters before the Open Beta.

 

22 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

... but can't you just make Boosters untradable?

It isn't me who has to decide that, but for fast progress it is good to sell them. That's why I never opened a booster again on the main server, after I knew, that you can trade them.

 

22 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

Among my friends I know several people who started the game and most left immediately after they finished the campaign missions since "there was nothing more to do".

I am pretty sure they did not played all maps on expert (because Kubik said one, that there are just a few people who did finish all maps on expert). Playing all maps in standard is actuall pretty easy. In some maps you can not loose at in standard. Without knowing the game mechanics it is very hard to even play advanced difficulty. They should just try higher difficulties, if they want some challange.

 

22 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

I don't doubt that there are some good community maps, but accessibility is just as important as quality.

You can download them in the game client, after someone uploaded them.

 

22 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

... so, I wonder, is that being worked on?

Yes, with the new system, that problem will be solved. Just read it again, if you want to. It will explain why.

 

22 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

I completely understood that part. My original point was that I'm afraid of the concept not working so well a pull-factor that improves player motivation. Since getting a dynamic amount of BFP can't be as tangible than getting a virtual box that you can open.

Why should not it be a motivation to get 5x more BFP per played game with the daily boost?

 

22 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

I understood the concept by a 100%. But I'm confident that at the very least not a 100% of the playerbase is going to understand it.

If you explain it that way "With the daily boost, you get faster. After the daily boost: the more you play, the rate of BFP will be slowed down." close to 100% of the playerbase will understand it.

 

22 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

I absolutely believe you, but most people I know ingame have one.

Most player in this game are not good (at least from the currently playing ones). Hard to find very good players to play with sometimes.

 

22 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

(and I don't even mean the broken stuff like LSS or Amii Monument)

LSS and Amii Monument are not broken in higher difficulties. LSS has very low DP20S and is very bad against S units. For the Amii Monument, you always think about: is it worth it to waste a deck slot for that card, if you can get the Monument in the map anyways?

 

22 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

Yes, it is technically not the same, but on average both resources will correlate.

No, new players often loose games. If you start the first time to play expert maps, your win rating will be also far away from 100%. So it does not correlate.

 

22 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

I think it depends on the drop rate of boosters and, ultimately, how many cards will be changed into something valid. Given all the crap cards, I'm afraid making boosters rarer just makes disappointments more bittersweet.

Where is the fun of a lottery, if you know, that you will win every time? If you know, that you will win every time, there will be absolutely no fun involved. Making it less random means less fun imo.

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How on earth is ami monument and lss not broken. The first brakes every campaign map, makes rpve much more easier while also being cheaper to build than a regular t4 orb and the latter requiress 0 skill,easily spammable and orb requirement gives it amazing deck potential. I do agree with what some have said about the vast majority of casual players getting bored after completing the campaign since it does get boring to replay maps after the nostalgic feeling wares of. While you can argue replayability increases with a range of decks id argue what others have said about most having a favourite deck and sticking to it. Would be interesting to see some stats on cards played and the number of times players have replayed maps using difference decks.

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On 12/16/2019 at 4:16 PM, Kubik said:

@Kispilka89 because of incomplete statistic (some start at the end on September) your stats are:
creation date: 2018-09-29 18:38:44, time spend ingame 23400 minutes. completed quests: 1152, PvE matches: 1318, PvE matches won: 975, PvP matches: 132, PvP matches won: 59, cards: 1079, cards upgraded to lvl3: 507, total ultra rare cards: 93, total rare cards: 62
Amd I easily know that because I yesterday make some top 20 statistics for Mephisto and you are 18 on the completed quests (first one have: 1330)

Thanks Kubik.

I take pride in these numbers^^

Just an idea.

Is there a way in programming to add quests like do a specific map with a special orbs?

Forexample: Crusade with 3 Fire and 1 Shadow.

I think this would give us a lot of challenge and fun to achieve every campaign map with different decks.

Probably its not possible but i have to ask.

Thanks.

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I'm not sure how I can phrase myself more accurately without writing 3 times as much text. I don't think we are even disagreeing on many parts, but it comes down to understanding. However, given that nothing I say has any relevance in the grand scheme of things this is getting a bit too pointless for me. I think I just leave my points as they are. It's not like arguing changes anything.

11 hours ago, Halis said:

LSS and Amii Monument are not broken in higher difficulties. LSS has very low DP20S and is very bad against S units. For the Amii Monument, you always think about: is it worth it to waste a deck slot for that card, if you can get the Monument in the map anyways?

... no offense, but I don't think you understand the concept of balancing and the difference between viable and optimal builds. I can't continue, this is pointless.

Edited by ImaginaryNumb3r

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12 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

... no offense, but I don't think you understand the concept of balancing and the difference between viable and optimal builds. I can't continue, this is pointless.

I wrote "higher difficulties". I meant high level gameplay. I am sorry, for causing that misunderstanding. I know that cards seam to be broken in lower level gameplay, but they are not as good as you think in high level gameplay. Especially the LSS is not that good. LSS got already nerfed the hell out of it in EA times. Of course LSS are spammable, but that means, that you had a lot of unused energy, which is a bad sign in high level gameplay, since that means you could have used the energy earlier.

 

13 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

... no offense, but I don't think you understand the concept of balancing and the difference between viable and optimal builds. I can't continue, this is pointless. 

No offense and no swaggering, but I am record holder for many maps as you can see here https://forum.skylords.eu/index.php?/topic/6044-soloduotrio-all-time-fastest-speedrun-rankings/ and here https://forum.skylords.eu/index.php?/topic/965-all-time-fastest-speedrun-rankings/ and also in the game client under "Rankings". So I consider myself of being capable.

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hi all

 

i have read through this and i support whatever changes the devs want to make as this is theirs reborn baby.  For clarity played this during the EA days.

Thank you so far for all you have done, i dont think there is an ideal situation for login rewards as some people can play all day and some have half hour a day, some players can make this up and spend all weekend playing others have out of work commitments  preventing playing, this is of course assuming they get the weekend off. I would imagine a soft option combining the both would be preferable for myself. whichever you choose someone always feels like they have been singled out and slighted.

an example ;

Daily missions rewards with fixed values that roll over from day to day. Maybe to prevent hording of these reward missions to prevent an all or nothing play style the value of the missions falls per day its not completed taking for example current system of 75 BFP if completed today less the day after after maybe down to a cap of 10 over a calendar week before expiring. Possibly at the same time using a version of this play and earn points that is clear for players to see in game.

From my own position which i dont think is to outlandish i can play in the weekday evenings for maybe an hour most days, sometimes more at weekends and sometimes nothing at all. I thnk this merged option would perhaps be better than play or dont get points, 30-45 mins is sometimes all the time i have.

Please with whatever you decide upon dont penalize players like myself to much as i am i would think a fair sample of your player base. 

REGARDING BOOSTERS

I dont believe the boosters were ever worth the shop price for them overall and never brought any but i was very pleased to receive one from a daily reward in this new incarnation and open it in the hopes of something nice! may i suggest a daily booster much as we have now and also this more focused option you have been thinking about as 2 separate options. I rather like opening it and receiving cards i might not have otherwise bothered with and wondering how i can make them work. 

Please also consider reevaluating some cards currently out that are just underwhelming and could be much improved with a slight numbers tweek on them, i am sure you have enough people that laugh when certain cards are mentioned, this would raise the default value of the booster as the cards are now the magical word 'viable'.

 

I am still amused by the over pricing in the AH for what are simply basic cards which as a 'new' player i am having problems getting enough to charge my cards and while i can make do and can work around this lack of charges i can envisage a lot of players leaving because of this, e.g. surge of light T1 nature heal fairly basic to the deck 150 BFP and one available currently,

This is a full log in to get at the moment. With the possible reduction of cards in circulation by the removal of free boosters this price will go up and the available BFP's going down down how much longer will it take to get this card ? 

How much longer will my deck take to build up to something fun to play with as this is the magic, it doesnt need to be the supper amazing deck of the month just something i have fun playing but there is only so much struggle and making do till you go elsewhere

if you have managed to make yourself read the above my congratulations and my apologies 

Merry Christmass one and all

PS please when you reset the game dont wipe the friends list for people :)

 

 

 

Edited by RedPlagues

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Firstly, I like the basic idea of the proposed system, I appreciate the chance to give feedback and agree with most of the other posts above. I had a super long post written up on this, but I think it will be best if I try to summarize it instead (PS. which also turned out quite a mouth full, sorry for that :unsure:).

TLDR:
I think BFP rewards should be reduced and other booster / card based rewards should be increased via achievements and rolling over quests.

The list:

  • I like the idea of the reserve pool. Have you considered letting the initial 10% of the pool fill slightly quicker, thus still giving a slight reward to players doing long sessions?
  • I think the point about boosters being a good thing has been made and heard. I strongly support keeping boosters as a reward. In fact I would like to see more boosters rewarded. For example two boosters rewarded each day and less BFP handed out:
    • 1 standard booster after 30 minutes
    • 1 colour focus booster after completing a quest
    • 50 (or a lower number) BFP after completing the other quest
  • I have one big concern: inflation. Inflation will get out of control in the long term if too much BFP is being handed out compared to cards. The proposed system will most likely make it worse. The flow of BFP into the system should be regulated and minimized. I think it is much more healthy for the game to have a surplus of cards vs. a surplus of BFP.
  • BFP is primarily an auction house currency, and only as a last resort will it be used to buy boosters. (Or am I wrong about this and most new players buy boosters? I know I haven't bought a single booster - I've been playing the stress test for about 2 weeks now.)
  • The current reasoning seems to forget some crucial things: 
    • We can't ever buy BFP from an outside source using real money, so there is no need to inflate prices to drive real world sales of BFP.
    • The auction house will have to be removed or dis-functionally expensive before it would make sense buying boosters with BFP.
  • The actual amount (number) of BFP in the system isn't the main concern, instead it is the ratio of BFP to cards in the system.
    • If there is too much BFP then card prices will go out of control (which seems to be happening at the moment), which is the worst scenario for the game. It also makes it easier for people to "monopolize" the auction house, making things even more worse. New payers will have a hard time.
    • If BFP is too low then most cards will cost 3 BFP each, which isn't ideal but not so bad as the alternative, because new players will be able to afford buying cards and catching up with the their friends / other players, which is good for the game.
  • Something that I find appealing about Skylords Reborn is the possibility of actually owning (playing with) 95-100% of the cards without having to spend a ton of real world money or grind my life away. This is something I was not able to do in the original game, and is something Skylords Reborn can offer which Battleforge could not and no commercial game can ever offer. Making access to the standard pool of cards to difficult, time consuming or grindy is a bad thing in my opinion. At the moment I'm feeling the hurt of not having a second copy of Windweavers or Shaman, which are common/uncommon cards but practically unavailable on the auction house - is that good for anybody? For long term players I think their engagement can be kept with achievements and a chance to get super rare cards such as skinned versions of cards and promo cards.
  • I think there is still some major shortcomings that need to be addressed and tested before the stress test can end (before the game goes "live"):
    • There needs to be different booster types (focused on colour, rarity and time limited promotion events). Each priced differently or rewarded based on different quests or achievements.
    • The current quests are nice, but I wouldn't mind seeing more variety. I also like the idea of something like a "hard" quest with for example 3 days to complete a specific challenge. For example: Win an expert PVE map with only common cards, or play a rPVE 4 player map with each deck being a mono colour and each colour being represented.
    • There needs to be a robust achievement system in place to fast track new players and provide challenges to long term players. (Please no boring stuff like "win 5/10/15 times with frost".) Early game achievements can award boosters that contain mostly common and uncommon cards, while late game achievements might award a single copy of Mo or similar neutral cards - thus implying those cards would be super rare or missing in standard boosters.
  • I really like the idea of quests rolling over for a full week. It takes a huge daily burden off, especially once normal life starts again next week. It also creates incentive to jump back in after being absent for a while. I would suggest keeping the 30 minutes timed gameplay as a daily quest that doesn't roll over, but the other quests could stack up for a week. Thus if I can only play each weekend then I'll have 15 quests to look forward to. :D Obviously the quests shouldn't overlap too much otherwise you will complete all quests in only two games.

 

So, where does the new system fit into all of this? I think it could kick in once you complete the 30 minute quest (which should continue to give a booster). So once that has been done, then you will start gaining BFP from the reserve pool.

 

:thinking: But then again if there were real long term achievements to work towards then is this still such a big problem to justify handing out trickle amounts of BFP to keep the addicts hooked? I understand the current problem were my 3rd game doesn't give my account any progress, but is BFP the answer or is an achievement system a better solution? I think I wouldn't feel so bad about that 3rd game if I knew it brought me 1 game closer to completing the achievement that gives me a copy of Mo, Viridya, Moon, etc.

 

All of the above is meant as humble feedback, to help spark ideas. I hope it can be helpful. Many thanks and respect for the team that brought as this far already! :)

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@RedPlagues sorry for the late response.

This system as is proposed by @MrXLink would probably left almost everyone feel like they can get only fraction of daily available BFP.

If quests would decrese reward over time, imagine player that will not play for a week... all quests would be at the minimum value.

With 30-45 minutes (if you would spend all that time in matches, no loading, no forge) you would get 83-125 BFP for these days, but someone playing 6 hours would be able to get 850 BFP... 6 hours is not that much for some players

Daily booster is too much, @MrXLink claimed this system will decrease the total amount of BFP value (including boostes) players will receive, which I guess would be achieved by this values, because most players would get much less. With 1 booster per day and nothing else you would have just after 1 year with no trading 2920 cards, that mean statistically most rares, and ultra-rares. I think main booster source should be achievements to boost progress on start, but make it very slow later.

I created whole Discord server dedicted to discuss posible card changes https://discord.gg/GZKKMqH results was posted here on forum. @MrXLink was agains any card changes before release, because he promissed it somewhere :( but be assured I plan to come up with this topic to the team again in the near future.

I see the main problem with boosters that you get 4.8 commons, and only 1.35 uncommons, but there is 171 common cards, and 147 uncommon cards, this makes massive undersuply of uncommon cards, which drives prices of more wanted cards like Shaman crazy high.

On 12/28/2019 at 8:52 PM, RedPlagues said:

This is a full log in to get at the moment. With the possible reduction of cards in circulation by the removal of free boosters this price will go up and the available BFP's going down down how much longer will it take to get this card ? 

I beleve prices would go up, because there would be players that would be able to affor it, just because of much longer playtimes.

On 12/28/2019 at 8:52 PM, RedPlagues said:

PS please when you reset the game dont wipe the friends list for people

Everything will be wiped, imagine someone else would be using your name after reset, and he would be doing something bad, and people would think it is you.

 

58 minutes ago, Kooning said:

I like the idea of the reserve pool. Have you considered letting the initial 10% of the pool fill slightly quicker, thus still giving a slight reward to players doing long sessions?

Have you looked to the values? Do you think it is even possible to empty the reserves?

@Kooning 2 boosters per day, is not even remotly considerable option for me. Just count how much cards would people have after few weeks.

"inflation" you can not prevent it here, but if you think there is a possibility I would like to hear it.

1 hour ago, Kooning said:

If BFP is too low then most cards will cost 3 BFP each, which isn't ideal but not so bad as the alternative, because new players will be able to afford buying cards and catching up with the their friends / other players, which is good for the game.

Yes it is a better alternative, but who would be selling cards, if they would be able to easily get all of them by opening boosters?

1 hour ago, Kooning said:

The current quests are nice, but I wouldn't mind seeing more variety. I also like the idea of something like a "hard"

here is big thread with suggestions, but after closer inspection the "general" not that interested quests, are the only that makes sense :(
It will never be "hard" for experienced players, and viable for inexperienced players, which is needed, otherwise you would just limit BFP income based on skill.

1 hour ago, Kooning said:

There needs to be a robust achievement system in place to fast track new players and provide challenges to long term players.

I am in favor of that.

1 hour ago, Kooning said:

Obviously the quests shouldn't overlap too much otherwise you will complete all quests in only two games.

Not really possible, but if you think you can come up with enough quests, that would be viable, feel free to make a list :)

1 hour ago, Kooning said:

the achievement that gives me a copy of Mo, Viridya, Moon, etc.

does not seem like good idea to me, because if everyone will have that card, it will completely lose its rarity.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kubik said:

This system as is proposed by @MrXLink would probably left almost everyone feel like they can get only fraction of daily available BFP.

If quests would decrese reward over time, imagine player that will not play for a week... all quests would be at the minimum value.

With 30-45 minutes (if you would spend all that time in matches, no loading, no forge) you would get 83-125 BFP for these days, but someone playing 6 hours would be able to get 850 BFP... 6 hours is not that much for some players

Daily booster is too much, @MrXLink claimed this system will decrease the total amount of BFP value (including boostes) players will receive, which I guess would be achieved by this values, because most players would get much less. With 1 booster per day and nothing else you would have just after 1 year with no trading 2920 cards, that mean statistically most rares, and ultra-rares. I think main booster source should be achievements to boost progress on start, but make it very slow later.

This is the problem almost all multiplayer games walk into.
That is why they go for the easy solution of just having as it is now 250 BFP per day.
While now most can get the daily BFP but again only the casual gets the better part.
The people who can't play daily can only get 1/3 if they lucky and people playing all day are rather bored quickly because of no progress afterwards.
It is also double because if you allow those lets say no lifers for the sake of argument to progress at their own phase they will have everything within a couple of days.
(talking out of own expierence, haha) So then again they are bored but then because of another wrong reason, having achieved already everything that there is to achieve.

In my opinion is it good how it is now, but...
You could add upon that but remember, to much is much worse than to less in a situation like this.
You can always increase it, you can't decrease it later.

So like keep it how it is now with the 250 BFP per day but give people a couple of BFP for longer...
(*just throwing out numbers* like 20BFP for every hour played afterwards, or even less)

Edited by Theo1143

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Honestly I think what the game lacks now and will lack with the new system is something to permanently remove economic value out of the system.
 

Currently we only get more and more value (bfp + booster/cards) but never value is lost. Same thing will happen with the new system, just slower. Eventually it always leads to this extreme inflation of prices and impossible entrance barriers for new players.

There are plenty of ways to achieve this, but all require developing work to create and implement the new features 

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I always won a lot from ah so.....ill be happy to test the new system, but, i think is a good idea to create a +reward in pvp quest, no one play pvp, maybie if u create a lucrative reward for this...maybie xD pvp could be more active, i wanna burn skylords :v

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9 hours ago, Theo1143 said:

That is why they go for the easy solution of just having as it is now 250 BFP per day.

:thinking:where you get that number 250 BFP per day?

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