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Halis

Solo/Duo/Trio All-Time Fastest Speedrun Rankings

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Posted (edited)

Empire Trio 13.9.1 ducarev Speedy92 and Loriens
Empire Duo 14.22.0 ducarev and Loriens

On 7/27/2020 at 11:04 PM, Flrbb said:

3.52?! insane

Ice Barriers at the edges of map block incoming waves and then kill them with Infernal Machine

Edited by Loriens

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Loriens said:

Ice Barriers at the edges of map block incoming waves and then kill them with Infernal Machine

 

After the batariel tactic which is on youtube our team developed first ever the next level tactic with block and infernal machine. Was funny to see that an old idea which we were not following first was so much better compared to batariel :-). Later some other teams followed - where ever they got the information from.:thinking::wrathgazer:

 

First ever used in June 2019 :-)

Edited by Pritstift
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Pritstift said:

 

After the batariel tactic which is on youtube our team developed first ever the next level tactic with block and infernal machine. Was funny to see that an old idea which we were not following first was so much better compared to batariel :-). Later some other teams followed - where ever they got the information from.:thinking::wrathgazer:

 

First ever used in June 2019 :-)

Idea with Ice  Barriers was originally developed by Hittimo, not your team, be honnest. 
And also no one knows now, who was first with Batariel idea, there was a big dispute here, your team or team which do not exist now, though when you placed it on youtube difference was only 9 seconds and other team already ceased to exist.

Edited by Loriens

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Posted (edited)

Just have to say this now because I do not understand the secrecy and the unwillingness to share tacticts. What are people hoping to gain here by keeping the tactics to themselves? Sell it later on eBay to make a fortune? 😉

I remember from back in the days, prior to the rankings feature, when people had to post replays in order to get their records confimed. I had the solo speedrun record for Crusade for some time (very long time ago and the tactic from the run is not valid any longer because some cards were changed, read balanced) and only way then was to share the replay with the community. From what I remember this also lead to improvements from my side on the map with the comments and help from the community.

Nah, information wants to be free as they say so start sharing and I am certain you will feel happier in the long run! 😄

// Ponni

Edit, when thinking of it, I am not 100% sure on my comment "prior to the rankings feature" but that is how I remember it. Perhaps someone remembers is better than me...

Edited by Ponni
typo

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Loriens said:

Idea with Ice  Barriers was originally developed by Hittimo, not your team, be honnest. 
And also no one knows now, who was first with Batariel idea, there was a big dispute here, your team or team which do not exist now, though when you placed it on youtube difference was only 9 seconds and other team already ceased to exist.

Loriens what you are saying is not correct in the context mentioned from my side before:

 

1) Old batariel tactic

It is true that the old russian team had a similar tactic but this tactic was just partially batariel and followed a different approach how to use him. I could post the old russian replay here and you can compare it with our video on Youtube - its completely different and also sometimes really chaotic compared to our clean strategy. I have no reason to lie - 100% true. The replay can proof this.

Just to add we got the old replay from the old russian Team itself after our tactic was on youtube - so no german devs were involved like the russian player Asgard would suspect:P

Also there was a fair reaction at least from the player Ahha who regognized that both teams had a similar approach but played it completely different. In consequence he also regognized that the attack from Asgard in the forum just was stupid and completely senceless.

 

2. Infernal machine

Also here i have no reason to lie. We were the first team ever using the infernal machine with block to get time clearly below 4 mins. I can proof this with replays and also we could simply let check the devs the old timings (for sure i will not contact them because of such things).

Also i dont know who was first with ice barrieres for block - i was talking about general block (also other buildings can be used) - so please read carefully . We never had any deep exchange with Hittimo or your russian team. We found out on our self how to improve block - in the same time the others like your team did the same. I never claimed that we were first with ice barriers block. If you want to claim this for Hittimo you are free to do so.

Thats all from my side - take it or leave it ;)

Edited by Pritstift

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Loriens do not blame yourself. I think you are one of the enemys team i can respect...

 

Ponni why we are keep the tactics for ourselfs?

It was hard work, many days of testing and maby we do not want to share thing can be copied easely where we had sometimes weeks of work. Sound ok for u?

 

/Wanky

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Ponni said:

Just have to say this now because I do not understand the secrecy and the unwillingness to share tacticts. What are people hoping to gain here by keeping the tactics to themselves? Sell it later on eBay to make a fortune? 😉

I remember from back in the days, prior to the rankings feature, when people had to post replays in order to get their records confimed. I had the solo speedrun record for Crusade for some time (very long time ago and the tactic from the run is not valid any longer because some cards were changed, read balanced) and only way then was to share the replay with the community. From what I remember this also lead to improvements from my side on the map with the comments and help from the community.

Nah, information wants to be free as they say so start sharing and I am certain you will feel happier in the long run! 😄

// Ponni

Edit, when thinking of it, I am not 100% sure on my comment "prior to the rankings feature" but that is how I remember it. Perhaps someone remembers is better than me...

There is a big and old "enmity" between our and the mostly russian team. So if we would post our replays it would mainly be helpful for them. They are the only team that has the time and knowledge to learn a lot from this replays . They simply could stick the best out of both team tactics together. But after they never would post their own replays to us?! They dont even wanted to share MOTM rpve replays in the past....!

So i dont will help to improve and maybe beat our times without a realistic change to see a replay from the other side to do the same. We invested years of gaming to develop so i dont will give it out without the chance of a fair reaction.

This is my point of view. I know it could work different for speedruns and the community - but thats the situation we have right now. So sorry for the rest of the community.

But still we are working to share some semi-speedruns from some of the maps to make it easier for new players to develop own speedruns tactics that could be competetive against the existing teams if they work hard enough.

Edited by Pritstift
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Pritstift said:

There is a big and old "enmity" between our and the mostly russian team. So if we would post our replays it would mainly be helpful for them. They are the only team that has the time and knowledge to learn a lot from this replays . They simply could stick the best out of both team tactics together. But after they never would post their own replays to us?! They dont even wanted to share MOTM rpve replays in the past....!

Sure, that is understood from reading multiple posts in the forum... 😄

And I can acknowledge that too and totally concur on not bearing with people who only take and take and never give anything back.

 

5 hours ago, wanky said:

It was hard work, many days of testing and maby we do not want to share thing can be copied easely where we had sometimes weeks of work. Sound ok for u?

/Wanky

Well, to be completely honest, I must say no to your question, but then given Pritstift's answer also I change it to a reluctant yes...

// Ponni

Edited by Ponni
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3 hours ago, Ponni said:

 

Well, to be completely honest, I must say no to your question, but then given Pritstift's answer also I change it to a reluctant yes...

// Ponni

Yea my english is quit bad...

 

btw:

 

Guns of Lyr Trio 2.41.8 done by Pritstift + Lebovin + Wanky ^^

Bad Harvest Trio 2.56.5 done by Pritstift + Lebovin + Wanky ^^

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Ponni said:

And I can acknowledge that too and totally concur on not bearing with people who only take and take and never give anything back.

Though if you simply check existing list on forum you can easily notice that members of this former Russian team shared more speedruns than other team, which shared only GoL when difference was only 9 seconds and other team ceased to exist which was well known for them so they could share it safely; and solo Titans which was not really new due to nature of this map - and also was shared earlier but with one minute difference.
Of course Treim is special, but it's his own unique contribution for the community with solo replays of rPvE - and rPvE requires different apporach every month.

22 hours ago, Pritstift said:

1) Old batariel tactic

It is true that the old russian team had a similar tactic but this tactic was just partially batariel and followed a different approach how to use him. I could post the old russian replay here and you can compare it with our video on Youtube - its completely different and also sometimes really chaotic compared to our clean strategy. I have no reason to lie - 100% true. The replay can proof this.

Just to add we got the old replay from the old russian Team itself after our tactic was on youtube - so no german devs were involved like the russian player Asgard would suspect:P

Also there was a fair reaction at least from the player Ahha who regognized that both teams had a similar approach but played it completely different. In consequence he also regognized that the attack from Asgard in the forum just was stupid and completely senceless. 

It's good that at least you accepted now that you wasnt first with that idea, because it's not possible to understand somehow who was first when we are talking about ideas.
Same for blocking with Infernal Machines - I remember how we were surprised when we saw your time and realized that somehow you got same stratregy.

Edited by Loriens

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Posted (edited)

Of course, everyone can claim to have had the same idea. That they had the idea at all, before or after someone else cannot be disproven. But, there are still people that had the idea and then did play it first. ;) 

Also, as Rise of a Demon has shown: Different players can get sometimes very similar times using way different strategys. :) 

 

 

Edited by LEBOVIN

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59 minutes ago, LEBOVIN said:

 Also, as Rise of a Demon has shown: Different players can get sometimes very similar times using way different strategys. :) 

Good to hear that you finally realized this. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, LEBOVIN said:

Of course, everyone can claim to have had the same idea. That they had the idea at all, before or after someone else cannot be disproven. But, there are still people that had the idea and then did play it first. ;)

That's good, if your team finally accept this now we can start with next step.

On 7/29/2020 at 3:21 PM, Pritstift said:

There is a big and old "enmity" between our and the mostly russian team. So if we would post our replays it would mainly be helpful for them. They are the only team that has the time and knowledge to learn a lot from this replays . They simply could stick the best out of both team tactics together. But after they never would post their own replays to us?! They dont even wanted to share MOTM rpve replays in the past....!

So i dont will help to improve and maybe beat our times without a realistic change to see a replay from the other side to do the same. We invested years of gaming to develop so i dont will give it out without the chance of a fair reaction.

This is my point of view. I know it could work different for speedruns and the community - but thats the situation we have right now. So sorry for the rest of the community. 

But still we are working to share some semi-speedruns from some of the maps to make it easier for new players to develop own speedruns tactics that could be competetive against the existing teams if they work hard enough.

Some members of your team always say that you share speedrun strategy while other team - no matter was it previous team or our current team - never do this.
Though it's not true. You never showed something valued. For example I immediately shared my old Soultree record with everyone, and also told Lebovin (so your team) how to do it 10 seconds faster, and Halis also told your team a trick how to do it 2.5 faster. I even showed how Im trying to improve my strategy in Discord for Lebovin when I already had 9.25.7.  What I got as a return from your team, which is "always willing" to share replays?
When I got new record on Soultree Pritstift told me that I shouldnt play with Russians because they never share their replays. So I was interesting about his speedrun replays on youtube - and found nothing, but found replays from Russian team.
If we are talking about rPvE which we "even didnt want to share" - when we had 15-19 and Treim with Pritstift had 15-30 we also shared replay with your team when you asked, though it was far from ideal - and that was the only reason why we discussed should we share it or not, and I told this reason for Treim immediately when he asked our replay. Eventually we shared that replay which didnt show our strategy properly and it was really interesting to see that completely different strategies lead to nearly same time.
Thanks for MephistoRoss - it's easy to compare how many replays of your team and opposite team were shared:

https://youtu.be/V4L05824xFY - Siege of Hope - your team - already existed on youtube and is very well known for everyone - not really unique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuBNa_UOpj4 - Soultree - by our team - unique.
https://youtu.be/vb4hYo-Wm9E - Treasure Fleet - old Russian team replay - unique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzEa1SFHDS4 - Convoy - old Russian team replay - unique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJbwIB3eoho - Crusade - old Russian team replay - unique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O539pdiE7Uw - Guns of Lyr - your team - unique, though opposite team had nearly same strategy and 9 second difference (but less time to practice), but ceased to exist earlier, so you could safely share it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cRlgrsj_2k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M54qssuYV2E - Bad Harvest - old Russian team - unique.
https://youtu.be/yaCIwuObrr8 - Titans - solo by your team - was an improvement of already shared solo speedrun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqo4ElIXBYk
I hope after these proof links your team will forget your own legend that you share replays while opposite team dont do this.

Edited by Loriens

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Posted (edited)

Its nothing new that different strategies can lead to the same time, we had this multiple times already, I won't comment on that any further.

Where have I claimed I am sharing replays with others or "disinformed" people?

Edited by LEBOVIN

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21 hours ago, Loriens said:

Though if you simply check existing list on forum you can easily notice that members of this former Russian team shared more speedruns than other team, which shared only GoL when difference was only 9 seconds and other team ceased to exist which was well known for them so they could share it safely; and solo Titans which was not really new due to nature of this map - and also was shared earlier but with one minute difference.
Of course Treim is special, but it's his own unique contribution for the community with solo replays of rPvE - and rPvE requires different apporach every month.

I am not interested in participating in whatever "feud" is ongoing. I simply claim the following:

1. Back in the days everyone shared everything pretty much (before rankings feature came into play...again this is how I remember it...). Eg. "Look what I did on Crusade, cool ain't it" and then someone replied like "Well, you can save some seconds here and there" and shortly thereafter "Thanks dude, I managed to cut another few seconds off!".

2. My comment was in general terms and had nothing to do with either side of the "feud". I simply do not like people that do not understand that to take you need also to give and vice versa.

// Ponni

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GoL: are ice brriers (with infernal machines) strong enough to kill the last wave which spawns when destroying the building in the corner?? also, when I remember correct, that tactic dies mit hurt flying units?!

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Posted (edited)
On 8/9/2020 at 1:20 PM, Flrbb said:

GoL: are ice brriers (with infernal machines) strong enough to kill the last wave which spawns when destroying the building in the corner?? also, when I remember correct, that tactic dies mit hurt flying units?!

Yeah, exactly, flying units also will die if everything correct. You should build Ice Barriers in ideal positions to block incoming wawes so no more units will come until the very end. At the end Infernal Machin kill them. It's hard to find ideal position btw.

Edited by Loriens

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i would like to share the replay from serval GoL runs (solo duo Trio and quaddro) but at the moment old replays does not work anymore. Just ABO our Speedrunner YT channel for beeing updatet alltime.

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We would suppose also to add new rankings for the 12P-Maps. We want to avoid unnecessary cluttering of the 12P rankings. Thats why we would suppose the following classification of the rankings:

 

1) Passage to Darkness

Due to the fact that all three maps are nearly  the same we suppose the following categories to keep the overview:

3/12 = "1/4" on a single map

6/12 = "2/4" on a single map

9/12 = "3/4" on a single map

 

2) Ascension

4/12 to 9/12 like above. 4/12 because based on our current experiences it may be not possible to finish the map ascension with just 3 players or we were just unlucky until now ;-).

 

4/12 = "1/4" - on two single maps one player and two players on the other map

6/12 = "2/4" on a single map

9/12 = "3/4" on a single map

 

For a makeable approach to track the rankings the devs also need to apply filter options for the 12P maps ingame. @Zyna@Ladadoos

 

What do you think about our approach speedruners? Do you want to have deeper classification?

 

We also have some first times:

Ascension 4/12:

50.51.5 LEBOVIN +  Pritstift + Treim + Wanky

Passage to Darkness 3/12:

17.21.4 Pritstift + Treim + Wanky

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50 minutes for one map? :o But I got told already, that it is a hard map with just 3 or 4 player ^_^

3-Player, 6-Player, 9-Player and 12-Player ingame option seems fine for me, since not many Player seem to be able to play that map on Expert (till now 6 won matches in Ascension and 18 won in Passage to Darkness according to the ranking). For forum I was thinking to add a spoiler for the 12 player maps, because 8-Player is easier than 6-Player, but still harder than 9-Player. Feel free to leave your feedback

12-Player-Maps

Ascension

3-Player:	00:00.0	-									August	  2020
4-Player:	50:51.5	Wanky + LEBOVIN  + Treim + Pritstift					August	  2020
5-Player:	50:51.5	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
6-Player:	50:51.5	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
7-Player:	50:51.5	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
8-Player:	50:51.5	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
9-Player:	50:51.5	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
10-Player:	50:51.5	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
11-Player:	40:09.0	Black-EVE10 + NeoNyle + SoulhunterXX + Jun07Viper + ForTNite + nerohun 
			+ Polemon + TheGreatFool + Juratueur + Sagitarion + Nikopol		August	  2020

Passage to Darkness

3-Player:	17:21.4	Wanky + Treim + Pritstift						August	  2020
4-Player:	15:18.7	Wanky + LEBOVIN  + Treim + Pritstift					August	  2020
5-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
6-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
7-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
8-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
9-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
10-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
11-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020

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30 minutes ago, Halis said:

50 minutes for one map? :o But I got told already, that it is a hard map with just 3 or 4 player ^_^

3-Player, 6-Player, 9-Player and 12-Player ingame option seems fine for me, since not many Player seem to be able to play that map on Expert (till now 6 won matches in Ascension and 18 won in Passage to Darkness according to the ranking). For forum I was thinking to add a spoiler for the 12 player maps, because 8-Player is easier than 6-Player, but still harder than 9-Player. Feel free to leave your feedback

12-Player-Maps

 

  Hide contents

 

Ascension



3-Player:	00:00.0	-									August	  2020
4-Player:	50:51.5	Wanky + LEBOVIN  + Treim + Pritstift					August	  2020
5-Player:	50:51.5	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
6-Player:	50:51.5	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
7-Player:	50:51.5	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
8-Player:	50:51.5	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
9-Player:	50:51.5	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
10-Player:	50:51.5	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
11-Player:	40:09.0	Black-EVE10 + NeoNyle + SoulhunterXX + Jun07Viper + ForTNite + nerohun 
			+ Polemon + TheGreatFool + Juratueur + Sagitarion + Nikopol		August	  2020

Passage to Darkness



3-Player:	17:21.4	Wanky + Treim + Pritstift						August	  2020
4-Player:	15:18.7	Wanky + LEBOVIN  + Treim + Pritstift					August	  2020
5-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
6-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
7-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
8-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
9-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
10-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020
11-Player:	15:18.7	(See 4-Player)								August	  2020

 

 

Seems quied OK for me, but i think for PTD it not rly needet to add anything eles 3/6/9 okayers, cause of the similar map of all 3 maps. only the map 1 is little diffrend. still im am Fine if u want to add all of the player counts.

 

50min "speedrun" is quit fun i know, but we all know that ascension isnt that easy to solve if u are solo on a map. but stimm i am quiet shure we will improof this time a lot. Was our first Run =)

 

/wanky

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