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myraezel

Boring for beginners

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1 minute ago, Kubik said:

@MrAmumu imagine a player that create an account play a match, have something else to do and come back two weeks later to found out there was some bonus he/she missed. 
"first favourite deck early on" how could new player know what will be favorite deck if they may not even know how many colors cards cane have.

3

Make the bonus a thing you can activate at any time. Most new players will usually research this game via websites/youtube, and get a general understanding of what this game is about. There's only 4 elements lol. Newbies can choose based on their favourite element. But giving newbies a boost early on is nice, it lets them play with more cards and have more fun instead of only using tutorial for so long

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perhaps for pvp something similar like tome mode. Where noone can use upgrades. complete new meta.

 

 

but for me this is not important. I am often frustrated because i loose most of the time. But that is the case in every game for me. XD 

 

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Posted (edited)

a solution could be ,give us from the begining a big amount of gold ,for example 50.000 but not enough for 120 deck ,player should play a bit the whole game and not be lazy or as said above enable tome decks,tome pvp

Edited by nofearek9

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If it will be activated by default they will not know they can turn it off, because they will not even know it is there. So they may waste it.
If it will be disabled by default they will not know they can turn it on, because they will not even know it is there. So they will not use it at beginning, and maybe keep it for much later when they will know what they want.
"There's only 4 elements lol." new players asked about it multiple times already.
"Newbies can choose based on their favourite element" how they can know it if they are new in game?
"giving newbies a boost early on is nice" from my experience it was always discouraging to continue, because I found out if I start over I can use that bonus much better, so in many games that have some feature like that I end up starting multiple times and never getting to the end game content :P so I just do not like it.

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I think a better way for the boost is to activate by default for total of X matches, and add it into the Quest screen as like “New player quest-receive x% gold boost for x matches x/y”

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8 minutes ago, Ultrakool said:

I think a better way for the boost is to activate by default for total of X matches, and add it into the Quest screen as like “New player quest-receive x% gold boost for x matches x/y”

Or make it as an automatic pop-up on your client.

24 minutes ago, Kubik said:

If it will be disabled by default they will not know they can turn it on, because they will not even know it is there. So they will not use it at beginning, and maybe keep it for much later when they will know what they want.

1

Disable it by default. Allow them to activate the boost when they want. Put a pop-up window in the client explaining what this boost is, where and how to activate it. Make an announcement about how to use it on the forums. For the newbies, they will not activate it until they learned more about the game. For old players like myself, I will activate it early and make my first competitive deck. 

Also, give gold/BFP rewards for playing PvP games, like RadicalX's idea.

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Try to keep those modifications realizable, remember that developpers don't have acces to lots of coding, we need to find a simple way to smooth things.

To be clear i'm mostly a PvE/Speedrunner player, and also an old PvP player+.

For speedrunning you need lots of cards (much more than PvP) because you need 1 deck/map. And you also need charges too. For PvP you can play different colors but people often prefer to stick to 1 or 2 gameplay. Moreover a 120 level deck is not needed you can be perfectly fine in PvP with a level 100 deck.

Some numbers i'm actually using :

PvE :

    134 cards (38 Rares, 11 Ultra Rares)

PvP (13 decks, all colors/combos) :

    94 cards (31 Rares , 8 Ultra Rares) 11 Rares 3 Ultra Rares in common with PvE

1 PvP deck is max 9 Rares, 2 Ultra Rares

The problem is which is the perfect time to have 1 full deck for beginner PvE or PvP, let say for example 2 weeks (you'll still need more than 1 year to have all cards).

I'm playing since 6-7 months and i have all my PvE decks, and almost all PvP too, i'm not using the Market at all => just to buy the cards i need when i want it, at the price they are when i'm looking at them.

But in order to do that, I'm like everyone else connecting 5 times/week just to do quest and win my booster. 40min/day and i'm just leaving the game...

 

For the price of booster/quests reward the main problem is that whatever the price, the market will always rearrange itself. if a booster is at 500 BFp, good rare card will be at ~500 BFp and good UR => 1500 BFp. The more the time pass the more people will have BFp the more good card will rise up. UR like infect/Wheel are at 2500+ BFp now.

If Booster will be at 15000 BFp => good rare cards will be at 15000 BFp. Problem will stay the same.

An easy trick to prevent that is to make a maximum price for a card by rarity. Keep ratio like it is today with reward, but try to do something like :

image.png.6ddc507a65395338fa0c37484804d2e2.png

Most of the good card will be at max value for sure, but it will be at least reachable. And average price will be less.

If i take my beginner PvP players example : 2 UR, 9 R at those price < 1 month

Thing that can be better, in order to decrease the time : Just do more quests (something like achievement) => i'll play more for sure :

Keep the daily Booster quest, but make those 3 one repeatable : 4 PvP game/ 2 rPvE game/ 3 PvE game. People will play what they want.

And for PvP players like RadicalX said just make more reward in Gold for upgrade, that will totally do the job if you don't like PvE/rPvE.

Eudoxos likes this

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Posted (edited)

After having had the chance to play the current version for a week, I am happy to say that I have to retract part of my criticism.

The reason for this is that at first, I didn't realize the upgrade system had been reworked to allow purchases of upgrades for gold, which is an excellent idea.
Initially, I just saw that tokens were removed, looked at the huge loot tables per map and assumed I would have to farm all upgrades by playing the same maps over and over again (which if I remember correctly was a major PITA back in the day before tokens were available, especially in cases were a certain upgrade just wouldn't drop and you had to endlessly farm the same multiplayer map).
Now, given that upgrades can be bought for gold and the prices are indeed reasonable, it makes sense that card acquisition can't be super fast as well.

Not having access to certain cards in the beginning is also easier to deal with, if in turn the other cards you have in your deck are upgraded.
I understand this doesn't solve the issues for PVP players and speedrunners, but the situation for regular PVE players is certainly much better than I thought in the beginning.

A few additional observations from my perspective (might be well-known):

- The best strategy in the beginning seems to be to never open a booster, but instead always sell them for BFP and buy cards on the market. I don't know if there is a solution, but it feels a bit weird.

- As has been discussed, currently the rate of card acquisition is almost completely linear. I agree with the people who feel that it would feel more motivating to speed up card gains in the beginning and slow it down later. Total time for completing a collection could stay the same, but the pace would change.
I think the achievement that awards additional boosters for completed quests in the beginning has that goal, but currently it slows down very fast.

Edited by TBird
fiki574 likes this

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Some things / ideas that came to my mind while reading through this thread:

In general PvP players want fair matches with the same deck lvl. Pve players on the other hand want to collect cards and have a slow progress so they can have as much fun as possible. When you can't combine them, why not seperate this? Give every player two "versions" of their account (Can be solved with two linked accounts or just two modes that switches when you enter PvP). One with the original cards where you can trade, collects and play Pve and the other where you already have all cards with max charges but cannot trade and can only play PvP.

We could also try to add other methods to earn Bfp. The original BF had the option to pay and therefore skip the grinding part. I know we can't do that but we could try to find alternatives. The ingame accounts are linked to the forum accounts, right? Let people earn Bfps by doing stuff in the forum. Getting a like in a thread for example give you 20 Bfp or something like that. This would increase the activity in the forum. Besides most beginners especially the one who want to play PvP would look in the forum anyway to see about the meta or guids to build viable decks. This way the motivation for beginners to spend time with the game would probably increase in general and they would also learn some theorie at the same time.

I also like the idea that everyone can pick one color when they start the game and then get many defined cards of that one color. Of cause beginners don't know what color involve which card but even when you have no idea about anything in the game, you still have a favorite color, don't you? :) May sound stupid but I'm pretty sure most of the time this is a good indicator what color you actually like to play especially for a beginner.

One of the biggest problem is the amount of Bfps very important cards costs. Even cards like frostmage or shaman costs more than 400 Bfp and aren't even rare. I think you could improve that with these small 1 Bfp boosters that existed in the original game. Why did you even remove them in the first place?

If you don't like my ideas so far, here's simple step to improve the feeling of progress by at least a tiny bit: Remove the lvl requirement for upgrading cards. You have to be lvl 10 to upgrade firedancer to max lvl? So you need to play a tons of Pve anyway until you have the option to upgrade one of the most usefull cards in fire PvP on max lvl. And for Pve players the amount of gold you need is the more important obstacle anyway. I honestly never understood the purpose of that anyway :D

Last but not least I think the price for the boosters are way too high. I know that will be adressed anyway but the current price is that high that I'm worried you will reduce it by way too less. As many people say the most effective way now is to sell the boosters. I think that statement alone shows how overpriced the boosters are currently. As a overal idea I like the amount of 200 - 250 Bfp for one booster.

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You have no idea how slow BF is when you have all cards, or do you? I do not believe anyone interested in PvP want to have "all" cards and much slower game, they would want to have one or "few" decks only.

My favorite color is black, but that one is not available as card color in game :P . But from these 4 I would pick red first, which I would not like considering what cards it have, next one probably purple which is even worse... I do not believe color preference match the cards that color imply in battleforge. 

We did not remove 1 BFP boosters :P we just not create them. And I think adding that crap would make things only worse for R and UR and Promos, because the supply of these cards would drop significantly, so the prices would rise even more. Many people would be oversupplied with commons they would not want, so their game would be lagging because of that, and it would remove possibility to add option to convert unwanted cards to BFP, because the amount needed would need to be insane, to not create infinite source of BFP.

You can get PvP lvl 10 in PvP in first 24-26 matches based on if you win or not, and after that you can upgrade any card. To be honest it is easier than PvE where you need much more time(in matches) to get PvE lvl 10.

As I said above I will want to increase booster prices :P 

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Many people seem to don't like to play PvP with a deck that's not lvl 120 so I'm not sure if your statement is true. Though you could make it that the progress you make with your "PvP-account" is transfered to your "Pve-account" so you still have something to earn for your PvP-matches.

My favorite color is purple and I like to combine different cards especially when some of them have a downside so shadow fits very well. A friend of mine always play a defensive role in RTS and he likes blue so frost also fits to him. Of cause there would be many people who don't fit in that rule but you also could give the beginners a short overview over the color when they pick their starter color to make it easier for them.

You get lvl 10 in those few matches when you actually have a chance to win. Currently however it seems that it's very difficult for a beginner to even win 1/5 matches so you could play over 100 matches with most of them resulting in a frustating defeat until you are lvl 10.

Sure you can increase the booster prices when you give us 10 times more Bfp per quest :P

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There will be no splitting of already small community to PvP and PvE parts.

it looks like you totally miss this sentence: "I do not believe color preference match the cards that color imply in battleforge. "

We are going to decrease BFP per quest :P 

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I keep seeing suggestions for price caps (ex: max price for uncommon=150bfp), and it seems like nobody understands what actually happens when you implement them. Capping shaman and frost mages at 150 does not mean that people would be able to go into the auction house and buy them at that price, unless they are extremely lucky. Most people would trade them outside of the auction house at current price + a little extra for the effort. In addition, a handful of people with too much time on their hands would camp the auction house and snatch up every one of them the moment it appeared, then sell it in chat for a massive profit. Price caps will make it harder--not easier--to get the super high value cards.

 

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I didnt read the whole thread but here is one more idea for the progression system: Infinite quests per day. There are like 30, 40 different quests which contains pvp tasks and maybe something like "selling a card for 100 bfp" and they will repeat over and over again with minor changes. If it is possible they can be generated in way like "play 2 games for 1 booster" to "play 10 games for 3 booster" and so on. The quests will have different difficulties or time consumption. Therefore you can have different random percentages. What i mean with that: Difficult / more time conusming tasks are less than the easy. With that you get more variety in the existing quests. The other really important part is that there have to be more different quest. I mentioned at the beginning a quest "something like selling a card for 100(?) bfp". With this quest you can get players into trading cards (in the auction house). Many players are bored of the pve quests there existing. I have to say that these are normal pve quests and they shouldnt be changed but there should be more different. Maybe a quest where you have to play a specific map (in a selected difficulty) or play with the same group twice. You can even have a quest like "play with a pure frost deck" in combination with other quests. For pvp: "play 3(?) pvp matches". The requirement of absolving this quest could be: play pvp matches, you only have to play not to win and stay 5 minutes in every of these pvp matches in order to preventing skip through the quest by starting and instant leaving the match. The time should be a little bit lower than the average pvp match time. It is really important that quests can be combined.

Sorry for my bad english but i hope you understand me. You can have even more quest types as i listed. You just have to think about what you can do in this game. It is also important that the quests and even "only" matches give you an adequate reward. Besides that bug and stability fixing of client and server are as important as the game concept and the good-feeling playerbase.

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here are some suggestions for quests 

there is not many PvP quests, and not all quests from the list can be implemented :( 
"something like selling a card for 100(?) bfp" this would take about minute to complete, offer cheap card for 100 BFP and ask friend to buy it ... quest done.

"There are like 30, 40 different quests which contains pvp tasks" can you maybe list them to that thread with quest suggestions?

As I already write it is planned to have more quests (the linked thread will be great source of inspiration), and it is also planned to not have hard limit on BFP acquired per day.

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Posted (edited)

I quit allready cause of the slow progress.

If i tell a friend to start with this game, but to play it only 1 hour each day cause quests they dont even start taking a look

 

 

Edited by Hans275

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No exact numbers right now, just example!

Imagine 20 quests instead of 2 with same gains per quest, would these quests make sense to you?

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5 minutes ago, Kubik said:

No exact numbers right now, just example!

Imagine 20 quests instead of 2 with same gains per quest, would these quests make sense to you?

After the reset, yes this could be a solid idea. Btw maybe lowering the booster price in the auction house at the same time should increase the deflating effect

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