Wish to contribute to the project by donating? Heads up to our Patreon -> https://www.patreon.com/skylordsreborn

Jump to content
BEWARE: Multiaccounting May Cause Permabans! Read more... ×
myraezel

Boring for beginners

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

@Kubik The argument of Navarr regarding prices was not tailored to actual bfp price in the market but that as an experienced player you know how good cards are compared to other similar cards in regards to strength, useability, versatility, etc. With that information it is much easier to get a relatively accurate judgement of which cards are currently undervalued and therefor worth picking up. That is because you are not looking at single cards but can see the market as an interconnected web of many different cards. That does not necassirily mean that you know every cards price perfectly but that you can judge much easier how fairly priced something is at the moment. 

As a new player you lack a lot of that knowledge and therefor it is easier to fall for „traps“ and/or you have to invest a lot more time into the market.

I hope that cleared things up a bit

Edited by Treim
Navarr likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Kubik said:

I played PvP without having fully upgraded deck, without a problem and did not feel discouraged at all.

And I am sure that if you give fully upgraded deck to newbies and not upgraded to pro player, the pro players wins most of time.

Bold part: Fair enough, although I suppose you are not a 'newbie' in the game? I sometimes get matched against bronze-ranks and I just think 'hell, this must suck for you'.

Second part: This is the core of what I am talking about. Right now newbies get ABSOLUTELY stomped because of two reasons: Skill / Upgrades. The difference is just TREMENDOUS. They have no chance to win against anyone who kinda understands the game and has an upgraded deck. If I play 10 times in a row against Hightech or RadicalX I need a break from PVP. For newbies, virtually every player they come up against is a RadicalX or Hightech (metaphorically spoken). If they at least had access to the right cards + upgrades early on they would realize there is actually a chance for them to beat these playes.

Edited by Showaren2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"metaphorically spoken" unfortunately the list of players is bit longer, but not much. There is not much newbies in PvP.

I know for sure that upgrades would not help here. Radical can win against any newbie even if Radical will have tutorial deck and newbie fully upgraded one. Be sure of that. And because only few high ranked players waiting in ranked lobby they get paired with the first one who join because the is just no one else...

I did not spend too much time on it, because crashes are more important, but I do not see any option to solve this problem :( 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Kubik said:

"metaphorically spoken" unfortunately the list of players is bit longer, but not much. There is not much newbies in PvP.

I know for sure that upgrades would not help here. Radical can win against any newbie even if Radical will have tutorial deck and newbie fully upgraded one. Be sure of that. And because only few high ranked players waiting in ranked lobby they get paired with the first one who join because the is just no one else...

I did not spend too much time on it, because crashes are more important, but I do not see any option to solve this problem :( 

I'm not sure, but I think you didn't understand what I meant.

I meant that if I play against RadicalX and Hightech 10 times (and obviously lose 10 times), I get a bit frustrated and need a break from PVP. But I do play other people and win, so it is perfectly fine for me.

However, for a complete newbie without upgrades/charges, almost every player is a RadicalX or Hightech (again metaphorically spoken, any top 50 player will feel to them like RadicalX feels to me), because they got no chance to win against almost anyone.

Edited by Showaren2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Kubik said:

you can sell the boosters and buy cards, that way players build 120 lvl deck in first week.

What kind of deck is that supposed to be?

I just checked and a single Mountaineer currently costs 2000-2500 BFP in the auction house, often more. So it will already take more than a single week to buy 2 Mountaineers - and that is a best case scenario, in which you don't open a single booster and can sell them for around 430BFP. Even a simple nature card like a Shaman is close to 1000BFP, a Mana Wing 750 BFP, Enlightenment around 2500 BFP and Wheel of Gifts 2000 BFP.
Now god forbid you want to play different colors/decks and have these fully charged...

There is no way you are getting a single competitive PVE deck even close to lvl 120 in a month, let alone a week, especially since you need considerable time to actually farm all the upgrades.  Now consider the incoming resets on top of that and you can see the problem.


 

Edited by TBird

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, TBird said:

I just checked and a single Mountaineer currently costs 2000-2500 BFP in the auction house, often more.

It was surely not ment, that you get the most expensive deck possible on level 120 within one week selling the boosters and bfp you get from daily quests.

It was ment, that you are able to create a high level deck consisting of good and cheap cards. Therefore I am a little bit confused about your statement because it does not make sense. All cards you mention count to the most expensive cards of the game. When I started to play in october last year, i started to build up a quite universal twilight deck (see attachment) because it gives very good value for low bfp. Most expensive cards of this deck are hurricane and ensnaring roots, but you can play most PvE expert maps very well even if you have only one or two stacks of these more expensive cards.

Maybe you should search the deck build section or the beginners guides to look for cheap deck suggestions.

Additionally none of the cards you mention (except Mana wing for some special tactics) are core cards for PvE. (If you check the market regularly, you can get mana wing for around 300-400 bfp)

Even if I dont agree with all of Kubiks statements in this thread, I think that working for cards and upgrade is a higher incentive than having all cards and upgrades to compete in PvP. Additionally I agree, that you will not beat a better player in PvP even if you have the upgrades. The fail rate will still be 100%.

To increase the winrate of beginners, the machmaking need to be changed that beginners will only be matched with other beginners. Even if this means, that players maybe sometimes does not find an opponent.

Mfg Urmel

Unbenannt.JPG

Edited by Urmeli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to play BF a lot when it was released by EA, and I got very excited when I learned about a project to bring this game back. However, after reading about the game's system & structure, I've decided to not even bother downloading the new client because I knew I'd eventually feel the same way as OP. 

Like in many other PvP games, players hate it when they lose 1v1 matches because of a lack of upgrades, resources, etc, related to prior PvE grinding and/or ingame purchases. Regardless of skill, we can all agree that PvP matches where 1 player has a fully stacked lv120 deck vs another who doesn't aren't fun to participate in, nor are they fun to watch. Moreover, they wouldn't be equal games so the 2 players wouldn't be able to adequately train their PvP skills, making the PvP experience not very fun, and somewhat useless. Thus, there's very little point for a beginner to even think about playing PvP within the first 2 weeks to 1 month until they can get an equal and fair playing field against their opponents (i.e. lv120 deck with specific cards). 

The devs can make the argument that they've implemented a matchmaking system in PvP where low elo players with weaker decks would get matched against people of their elo, but the reality is that BF simply does not have the player base to support such a system, and you'll constantly see players with fully upgraded decks get matched against those who have weaker decks, and regardless of skill, should the player with the weaker deck lose, he/she will almost always blame the loss because of their lack of upgrades and card quality. I know I would too. And besides, why would I want to practice my PvP skills with shit decks against people with stacked decks? I'll for sure never be able to train and learn properly under these conditions. 

The devs falsely believe that the only grinding in this game comes from the PvE and market/card trading, and that without it, players would feel bored and lack an objective on BF. However, in my opinion, most of the grinding should come from playing multiple PvP games with different deck and card combinations, ranking up in the ladder, and learning new mechanics everyday, instead of doing the mindless, boring and repetitive process of PvE farming with cards that people don't even enjoy using before they can actually start training in PvP. I am sure this is the experience that most of the BF community wants. Why do you think games like Fornite, Apex Legends, League of Legends, etc, have such massive success? One of those reasons is that, when people come home from work or school for instance, they want to enjoy the video game and get immediate and short PvP action. Play a few PvP games a day then move on with their lives. And for the more hardcore gamers, they'd be able to play countless of PvP games, increase their skill, and rank up the ladder. That's the grinding that the devs should aim for. 

The PvE experience on BF is certainly not its area of promotion. There are plenty of better PvE games out there that are significantly more rewarding to the players, have better storylines and are more enjoyable overall. 

In conclusion, what I suggest is to unlock all upgrades and cards only for PvP, and still have PvE maps available. This way, the players that want to play PvE will be able to, and the players that want to just do PvP would also be able to without forcing them to play PvE. Many other known pros/veterans have suggested this idea months ago and the devs have denied it. I realize my post is just repeating a long discussion from before. But, clearly, your player base right now is very low, and the beginners who are looking to try out this game are getting uninterested. Why not try out the idea I've suggested for like 1 month, get some statistics, and then see which system (yours vs the one I'm suggesting now) is better.

Xientie likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"League of Legends" I seen many players screaming they lose because they did not own some runes, how is that different :thinking:

"Fornite, Apex Legends" I did not actually play any of these two, because they are crappy games that run on phones, so I can not say if there is some system to limit new players or not. But if not it is just another reason to not like these games. When you start game like this what you did yesterday does not mater you start from beginning each match. (Not saying it is bad for competitive games, I just do not like playing like that)

If if would be only my decision I would almost not keep PvP in the game :P

"player base right now is very low" I would chose smaller player base than big one that want to play some battle royale crap.
I rest of team ever chose to convert game to that I will quit :P and remember in last year I did about most of the work, and Fiki have now even less time than before.

But I am not against "Why not try out the idea I've suggested for like 1 month, get some statistics, and then see which system (yours vs the one I'm suggesting now) is better." so you can try to ask Hawk if he will agree to that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

So I see a lot of heated discussion here, but I think I'll add my own opinion anyways.

At the core, Battleforge is about collecting and upgrading cards. This is something I don't think should change (because I enjoy grinding and marketing a lot), but I'll have to agree that the game as is, is not new-player friendly in the slightest. There are hints in the beginning that tell you what you can do, but there are no tips or anything like that saying what you should do (or at least what type of mindset you should have // I have seen a couple of tips and stuff in loading screens, but there is so much to this game that I don't think this is enough).

The biggest problem with this is how the cards themselves translate ingame. Some cards' playability are not completely obvious just from what you read on the card. You aren't able to "test" cards to see how they play, you have to invest BFP in them before that. And from what some people in this thread have discussed, this seems to be what's holding them down in terms of marketing. Yes they can see Wheel of Gifts for 2700 (as of when I am posting this), and of course that would mean that it's probably good. But how good is it? I've seen it for as low as 1600, and I would know the price right now is pretty inflated, but there are players who don't have the intuition or smarts to understand how to play with the market. I constantly give marketing advice to people who just want to buy cards that instant and don't think about the long-term benefits/detriments. They will take AH prices as final yes, but that leaves them open to being taken advantage of. And players aren't dumb, they can understand their ignorance and will give up before they even try to get into it.

Also, the trait of being able to trade boosters isn't very obvious from the get go. Just opening boosters by themselves isn't very efficient at all unless you open a promo. As a beginner, you can only make so many ignorant marketing mistakes before you give up in frusteration, and I've seen it happen to my friends that I'm trying to get into the game.

As for pvp, the aspect of playing pvp before having a decently upgraded deck is very intimidating for new players. Like mentioned before, good players can make a fully upgraded deck in a couple weeks easy (I know I did), but new players don't know the best ways to grind. They don't know the best cards they can add to their deck. To be fair though, the playerbase is too small right now anyways, so matchmaking doesn't really mean much currently. I supposed we could add more game modes, like no upgrades pvp, or commons only, but that's a topic for another discussion I would think.

5 minutes ago, Kubik said:

"League of Legends" I seen many players screaming they lose because they did not own some runes, how is that different :thinking:

 

Riot made it so you get access to pretty much all the runes from the beginning, looks like someone hasn't played LoL in a while. :kappa:

Edited by WatcherOfSky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Urmeli "sometimes does not find an opponent" unfortunately that would be 99% of times some players wait over 2 hours for oponent now :( 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding League of Legends and people complaining about runes, that maybe was the case Years ago but for months, that is no longer a problem. Everyone on LoL play on an equal playing field with all available runes and a lot of champions. No one complains about a lack of farming advantage vs others. 

Your point about "you start from beginning each match" is both true and false. In terms of ingame materials, yes you almost always start from the beginning each match. But, in terms of skill and experience, as a player, you constantly improve and change. Each game is a different one for you. And for BF, this is more significant as you can try out new card combos and deck almost everyday, making your PvP experience refreshed. And, you play against different people with different decks on different maps. Your PvP experience can be vast and rewarding every time on BF.

I think it's fine to have a medium-sized and loyal player base, but talk with your player base and ask them what they enjoy the most about BF. Is it the PvE or is it the PvP aspect of the game? Talk with them, make a vote, do a survey. The 1v1 and 2v2 aspect of BF is not a cheap battle royale! It has so much aspect and fun to it, BF is a game that has so much potential. 

 

The aspect of trading cards and having an AH is cool, but it is greatly limiting people from entering PvP. If it takes a pro a couple of weeks to get 1 lv120 deck, then imagine how long it would take for a newbie... Noobs would be quickly discouraged from even trying. And that's just making a single deck too. What if you want to play other elements? You'll have to grind for more and more weeks xD

Keep an AH and booster pack system available only for PvE. Players can grind for hours and weeks to make the decks they like and play all the PvE they want. But for ranked PvP, make all the cards and upgrades available so that everyone can have a fair advantage in games. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@WatcherOfSky no I did not play LoL, but I seen player been angry because of that few days ago :P and he play it almost daily at least last 2 or 3 months.

Ability to test all cards in forge was discussed a long time ago, but some members of the team was scared most players will stay in forge and not play the game, because they will have all cards here ( and we have evidence supporting this from closed beta), so it was decided not to investigate that possibility any further.

"you play against different people..." unfortunately not :( some statistic in last 24 hours there was 209 PvP 1v1 ranked matches, 165 of them included top 10 player, that is actually much more matches that few moths ago :) 

Many players already left because they like the collecting part of the game, I know many more player that play only PvE.

@MrAmumu @ InsaneHawk said that all important players are on discord, even after I show him numbers that on discord we have less than 2 000 people and here we have more than 50 000 accounts, so maybe try it on discord. But if you chose to discuss it with him on forum, it will be probably better to create separate topic for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Urmeli said:

It was surely not ment, that you get the most expensive deck possible on level 120 within one week selling the boosters and bfp you get from daily quests.

It was ment, that you are able to create a high level deck consisting of good and cheap cards. Therefore I am a little bit confused about your statement because it does not make sense. All cards you mention count to the most expensive cards of the game. When I started to play in october last year, i started to build up a quite universal twilight deck (see attachment) because it gives very good value for low bfp. Most expensive cards of this deck are hurricane and ensnaring roots, but you can play most PvE expert maps very well even if you have only one or two stacks of these more expensive cards.

Maybe you should search the deck build section or the beginners guides to look for cheap deck suggestions.

Additionally none of the cards you mention (except Mana wing for some special tactics) are core cards for PvE. (If you check the market regularly, you can get mana wing for around 300-400 bfp)

 

I am aware that I can upgrade some sort of cheap deck to challenge expert difficulty, that's not the point. Heck, there were enough (sometimes rather tedious) guides about beating expert difficulty with the basic F2P deck around 10 years ago.
The thing is: I have no interest to spend my limited time playing a makeshift deck I don't enjoy for months, in order to get access to the cards I used to play with - especially not with several upcoming resets!.

Your motivation probably differs from mine, but I mainly came back for the nostalgic experience. You know, having fun, playing the deck I used to with other players. Instead I am looking at months of doing dailys to get even a part of my collection back. In short: If you had an extensive collection back then, the current playing experience is a lot worse than the original.

Now, if you personally enjoy building up your collection over a rather long period of time, challenging yourself to use only easy to acquire cards while doing so and playing the auction house, that's fine with me. But I certainly do not intend to spend my time by checking the auction house 3 times a day or start spamming the trade chat all day long in order to maybe save 100BFP, so I have to do one daily quest less. For me personally, that's not what Battleforge is about.

And even though I barely played PVP, I feel sorry for the people who just want to relive the PVP experience. Back in the day, you spent money and bought the cards for your PVP deck with BFP, had to grind out the upgrades (which took long enough if your focus was PVP) and were good to go.
Currently, before you can even start a fair PVP match, you look at a rather extensive period of farming cards and upgrades.

I will admit that the aspect of collecting cards is part of the game. I am certainly not asking to hand out a complete card collection on the 1st day.
But how many people do you think will be happy to go through the unlocking process several times after each reset? In my opinion, the dev team is misguided if they believe making the acquisition of cards more tedious will automatically be beneficial for the playerbase.
Eventually, all players will have a complete collection anyway and at that point card prices will radically drop, because of an overabundance of available cards.

In my opinion, the longtime success of the game will depend on the creativity of the community and not on the question if people will have to grind a few more months for their collection.

If you really wanted to keep players interested longer by restricting access to cards, it might be better to spread out the release of the different card editions over time (while reducing booster prices). If I understand correctly, that's what Blizzard is doing with WOW classic: Not give access to all raids right away, but unlock them over time, so people can look forward to some "new" content. 

Edited by TBird
formatting, spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So we're better off removing the PvE aspect completely from the game? Couldn't agree less.

How can you compare most recent, Battle Royale games that focus COMPLETELY around PvP, and a TCG that MOSTLY focuses around collecting cards from the campaign aka PvE? Two completely different genres with 10 years of time between them.

Basically, we should adapt the game to someone's personal time limits? I think you should adapt yourself to the game, and not the other way around. Just because it doesn't suit you, doesn't mean it doesn't suit other players.

We've had this kind of discussions few times before, and we decided to stick to vanilla BF as close as possible. It didn't bother you then, it certainly shouldn't bother you now. I know you have to start everything from scratch again, but hey that's life, at least you get to play this game once again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fiki574 said:

So we're better off removing the PvE aspect completely from the game? Couldn't agree less.

How can you compare most recent, Battle Royale games that focus COMPLETELY around PvP, and a TCG that MOSTLY focuses around collecting cards from the campaign aka PvE? Two completely different genres with 10 years of time between them.

Basically, we should adapt the game to someone's personal time limits? I think you should adapt yourself to the game, and not the other way around. Just because it doesn't suit you, doesn't mean it doesn't suit other players.

We've had this kind of discussions few times before, and we decided to stick to vanilla BF as close as possible. It didn't bother you then, it certainly shouldn't bother you now. I know you have to start everything from scratch again, but hey that's life, at least you get to play this game once again.


Most of the top ranked BF players from before the game died only grinded PvE to make their decks. After that, they only played ranked. Sure, keep all the PvE content available in the game. But why force players to play PvE for a very long time before they can play PvP ? When EA created this game, they made the grinding very long and tedious on purpose in order to encourage players to spend money on cards to start PvP'ing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Kubik said:

Why you are so focused on PvP? Almost no one play PvP. PvP matches are less than 1% of all matches.

That's probably because everyone is logically forced to grind PvE for a very long time to reach lv120 decks before playing PvP

I used to play BF back in the day, and knew a lot of old players. There was a lot of high elo players that only played ranked. 

Xientie likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lvl120 deck bla bla... why you think it is required for PvP?

if 2 new player try PvP with tutorial deck against each other hat is the problem with it?

If there would really be players that would want to play PvP they would play it and get ranked against players with similar elo, but there is almost no one trying PvP so matchmaking is about how long you wait, not about your elo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Aaaand that's the point where Navarr joins the discussion again xD

Can you all please stay with the topic which is not PvP but the fact that beginners can't get a hold onto the current system? This way the community can't grow and we all don't want to see the downfall of Skylords earlier than expected. So, what are we gonna do? Maybe focus on the topic and evaluate the already stated points instead of dodging to other debates.

I would really wish that some points we brought up about PvE and general BFP : Booster value and market balance would be adressed. Also Kubik, we all appreciate what you do here so no worries about that. I just think your comparisons to other games don't quite fit in my opinion as they are very different in almost all aspects, not only concerning target audience and scale. In my opinion the community would profit much more from a discussion where we figure out how to fix the obviously broken current system. I heard that you are planning to fix some things simultaniously with the reset because of just how much the market is messed up at the moment. So if I were a developer here, I'd try to find out with the help of the community, how to make an efficient fix (and tweaking a few numbers is one of the most efficient things that can be done at the moment). So, many people already stated throughout different forums, different ideas for solutions that help both the market problems and the beginner problems which are obviously strongly interconnected. Why fight them instead of discuss? I don't get it.

 

ps: One last thing about PvP that I see is getting misunderstood. PvP is only 1% of matches (if this is true) BECAUSE it's so hard to get into it. Not the other way round obviously.

Edited by Navarr
TBird likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I compare only to games that someone else compare to first, and my point in these comparisons was that these games are different in almost everything.

"it's so hard to get into it" I disagree with that you can start playing PvP with any deck, you just should not expect to win against better players. Skill is much more important than deck.

You maybe missed the fact that tweaking the values takes few seconds, choosing which values change and how is mostly Links work I think.
But if you look at biggest problems based on this thread it would seem that values will not be problem if everyone will start with all cards fully charged. At least that is what I see in these posts, so I can not agree with them.
Do you have any specific values in mind that you think would make it better?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Who said it would be a good idea if everyone would start with all cards? Nobody wants that.

So as an example for 1 ez-to-tweak value, I already suggested in different forums, we can look at what a player gains from questing per day. 1 booster (worth 450bfp) and 150 bfp if I'm correct. So obviously it's better to sell the booster that has 3x the worth of the cash you are getting. This way new players suffer because they need to spend loooooooaaads of time and bfp on trading in the auction house, and doing so, they make bad deals because they are new and have no clue. So how to fix? Make boosters and bfp gain per day the same. Either change booster to 150 bfp worth or enhance BFP gain to 450. Or meet in the middle, as I suggested on day 1 of stress test btw. Easy fix by changing 1 or 2 values. Sadly this system has been the way it is for a long time so it would require a soft or hard reset to make a meaningful short-term impact.

ps: That said, the daily questing system is also not optimal but let's stay in these borders for the moment.

ps2: btw even without any kind of reset, this change would obviously benefit the newer players because it closes the gap between rich and poor.

Edited by Navarr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, MrAmumu said:

make all the cards and upgrades available so that everyone

that is just one example. You will find at least one other request like that in this thread alone. Many people wants that, so BF can be closer to their favorite Battle royale crap.

I do not see how changing the price of booster, or value of the quests would affect if players want to sell boosters or not. Unless the booster content change the relative value will stay the same, only the numbers can change, and because minimum value in BF is 3 BFP (for some reason, and we did not find how to change it yet) lowering the numbers can cause flattering of prices on the low end and affect it, but otherwise I think only the numbers will change. When will be the time to discuss these values in the team I will want to multiply all the prices( and rewards) by 2-5 to make booster price somewhere around 1500 BFP to allow higher variance for cheaper cards, while not pushing expensive ones to too big numbers.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to throw in a certain idea here

-> Make more PvP quests and let people choose between a PvP or a PvE quest tree. So no one ends up being forced to play a game mode he doesn't want to play.

-> Give PvP meaningful gold rewards, especially for losing players the experience is awful. As I already stated, the current values are even worse compared to EA times. 

 

This would give people a choice of playing PvP to farm upgrades and cards and it also would be less frustrating to lose matches if you get decent gold/bfp rewards. Someone lost 5 games in a row because of bad upgrades and cards? At least he does get to buy/upgrade some cards then in order to get competitive. Especially people, that don't have the time to grind hours and hours for upgrades and cards, do want to get the cards by playing the games they enjoy, may it be PvP or PvE. I mean just take a look at the amount of people from the PvE community, that started crying about the PvP quest before rerolls got introduced. People don't want to get forced into a gamemode they don't like.   

 

This is a quick overview for one of the current Shadow Frost decks that shows the difference between U0 and U3. Almost every single card gets a significant buff, making it more effective from a range about 10-60%. This is huge. Just for comparison: The stat difference between T1 and T2 units ranges about 10-25%. So this is somewhat worse than starting a T1 vs T2 match. Alot of combos aren't working anymore, which decreases the cost efficency of cards even further (burst breakpoints are the most important thing here).

Upgrade.thumb.png.9ebf1d2277c005ea2f58f00f80bd9359.png

One simple example: Nightcrawler + Nasty Surprise is a standard combo for 4/10 decks to burst down the  Skyfire Drake, who is used in 4/10 of available color combinations. With an U0 Nasty it doesn't kill the Drake anymore leaving couterplay potential with healing spells like ravage. This has huge implications on how these matchups end up playing out. The lack of charges for core trading cards makes things worse on top of that as you will run out of effective counter methods much faster than your opponent. 

I'm the current rank 1 player in PvP, yet I wouldn't stand a chance against any decent player, who has an upgraded deck even if my winrate was up to 100% against that person beforehand. There definitely is a decent playerbase outside of the "top 10/20", just take a look at toggys recent rookie tournaments. People are willing to play PvP if there is an environment to do so and there are alot of people from the PvP community, that simply don't bother playing before the reset, as they want to avoid as much PvE grinding as possible. 

3 hours ago, fiki574 said:

So we're better off removing the PvE aspect completely from the game? Couldn't agree less.

How can you compare most recent, Battle Royale games that focus COMPLETELY around PvP, and a TCG that MOSTLY focuses around collecting cards from the campaign aka PvE? Two completely different genres with 10 years of time between them.

Basically, we should adapt the game to someone's personal time limits? I think you should adapt yourself to the game, and not the other way around. Just because it doesn't suit you, doesn't mean it doesn't suit other players.

We've had this kind of discussions few times before, and we decided to stick to vanilla BF as close as possible. It didn't bother you then, it certainly shouldn't bother you now. I know you have to start everything from scratch again, but hey that's life, at least you get to play this game once again.

If we take that comparison to the old Battleforge, it is looking pretty grim for PvP. There was a way to get cards and tokens for upgrades just by investing a small amount of money. People had the chance of getting cards and upgrades for a strong PvP deck and PvP players used that opportunity as they wanted to play PvP, not PvE. Right now the game suits to players, that like PvE and you did a good job at that so far, but honestly it is worse compared to vanilla BF for PvP players. I'm pretty sure, that the majority of PvP mains would rather invest 10€ rather than being forced to play 30 hours of PvE over multiple weeks to start playing the game mode they do enjoy. Right now this possibility of paying money is gone for good reasons, but there is no compensation for it for a player who just likes playing PvP. 

 

WatcherOfSky, TBird, Loriens and 1 other like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.