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ndclub

Removing Upgrade System from PVP

294 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, DefAnske said:

I played both, PvE and PvP pretty much and I think the upgrade system was perfect for me, because I started of with PvE and played PvP after i had like every upgrade.

Of course its a whole other thing for people who just want to start play PvP, I think a reworked tome-system would be a great idea, but i definitively hope you will keep the PvE System as it was, of course sometimes you have to struggle through some hard maps to get what you need, but you feel satisfied when you get it and i think that's the whole point of it isn't it?

If you really hate a map you can play random-scenarios to earn the tokens to craft it.

I even think it's not bad to get some (but not to much) tokens for PvP matches. If you have collected a nice PvP Deck for yourself and got all the upgrades you are fine, yes, but when you get a new card that would be perfect for your deck you may have collected enough tokens to upgrade that card so you can continue with PvP instead of farming PvE first.

I'm sure you will find a solution that (mostly) everyone can agree with, and I'm really looking forward to play BF again, so keep up the good work!!

At the start, there random maps weren't implemented and people could get upgrades either from hard PvE maps or earn tokens on pvp. During that time if you say guy with 80lvl deck, you knew that he was badass and he could do every single map on hardest difficulty. During the end of Battleforge, everyone had 120lvl decks and still had issues with either PvE or PvP. I would love to battlegrounds removed, so people would have to get tokens via PvP but I guess that noone will accept it, since grinding Battleground is much more easier than doing PvE on expert or farming tokens via PvP.

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2 minutes ago, Aazrl said:

At the start, there random maps weren't implemented and people could get upgrades either from hard PvE maps or earn tokens on pvp. During that time if you say guy with 80lvl deck, you knew that he was badass and he could do every single map on hardest difficulty. During the end of Battleforge, everyone had 120lvl decks and still had issues with either PvE or PvP. I would love to battlegrounds removed, so people would have to get tokens via PvP but I guess that noone will accept it, since grinding Battleground is much more easier than doing PvE on expert or farming tokens via PvP.

Yeah, I played since beta and I didn't like this battlegrounds maps too, the hustle for the upgrades was way more exiting!

I still think that most people disagree on this, and since it's only our opinion it would not be a good solution for the game to remove it completely.

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9 hours ago, Aazrl said:

I still feels that upgrade system should remain the same - you don't want to play nonupgraded deck? Play tome. Don't you enjoy playing tome? Grind for upgrades to your regular deck. I don't see a reason why upgrades should remain in PvE if they are removed from PvP. Both scenes have casual and competetive group of players, is there a reason to go easy on one group?

Grinding for upgrades is exactly what we're trying to eliminate.  Most people don't like grinding and a lot of people don't like PvE at all.  The purpose of grinding in the original game was to force people to buy BFP; now that the game is truly F2P and not P2W, there is no need for grinding anymore.  I don't think that upgrades should be removed from PvP either, but I definitely don't think the upgrade system should be the same as it was before—the massive amount of grinding it took to get a competitive PvP deck would turn a lot of people away from the game.

8 hours ago, DefAnske said:

I played both, PvE and PvP pretty much and I think the upgrade system was perfect for me, because I started of with PvE and played PvP after i had like every upgrade.

Of course its a whole other thing for people who just want to start play PvP, I think a reworked tome-system would be a great idea, but i definitively hope you will keep the PvE System as it was, of course sometimes you have to struggle through some hard maps to get what you need, but you feel satisfied when you get it and i think that's the whole point of it isn't it?

I agree that the PvE system should remain the same.  PvE players tend to want different things from the game (more long progression), while PvP players just don't want to be at a disadvantage.  

Quote

I even think it's not bad to get some (but not to much) tokens for PvP matches. If you have collected a nice PvP Deck for yourself and got all the upgrades you are fine, yes, but when you get a new card that would be perfect for your deck you may have collected enough tokens to upgrade that card so you can continue with PvP instead of farming PvE first.

The problem is that not everyone likes PvE.  Getting fewer rewards for playing PvP vs PvE is a terrible idea.  That's how the game worked originally and the grinding was so bad that even EA added tokens to ease the pain.  You should get the exact same number of rewards for your time spend in PvP and PvE.

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2 hours ago, synthc said:

Grinding for upgrades is exactly what we're trying to eliminate.

Tome decks does this job. The disadvantage of tome deck is that enemy might get better one. And it is good thing. Battleforge was competetive in both PvE and PvP. Should every player get 120lvl deck for speedruns because U3 manawings got more hp, so it is easier to speedrun nightmare shard?

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10 minutes ago, Aazrl said:

Tome decks does this job. The disadvantage of tome deck is that enemy might get better one. And it is good thing.

How is that a good thing?  That's a terrible thing; it just makes tome come down to luck.  Yes, skill still plays a bigger role in tome than luck, but in a match between players of equal strength, the player with the better tome wins, thus it comes down to luck.  Sure tome will help with the upgrades issue, but it's definitely not a complete solution.

Quote

Battleforge was competetive in both PvE and PvP. Should every player get 120lvl deck for speedruns because U3 manawings got more hp, so it is easier to speedrun nightmare shard?

I never said anyone should get a level 120 deck without working for it.  Read my suggestion on the previous page.

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27 minutes ago, Aazrl said:

Tome decks does this job. The disadvantage of tome deck is that enemy might get better one. And it is good thing. Battleforge was competetive in both PvE and PvP. Should every player get 120lvl deck for speedruns because U3 manawings got more hp, so it is easier to speedrun nightmare shard?

Tome decks? Do you actually know how many people played the tome ranked mode? You could be rank 1 in the tome 2v2 ladder after winning a single (!) game. 1v1 didn't look that much better. Sometimes you had to wait about 30 minutes or even longer to find an opponent. Tome actually doesn't do the job. It also offers no strategic diversity due to the low amount of cards you've got and mostly ends up in a simple unit spam. The game experience in this game mode was awful, there are no other words to describe it. And I didn't even mention the fact, that rng in an rts-game is a pretty damn bad thing. Tome is not comparable with normal PvP when it comes to game experience. 

Battleforge had competitive aspects in PvE and PvP, I agree with that, but that isn't an argument for me why the upgrade system should remain. 

 

Just to make this clear:

 

PvP is unplayable without upgrades

-> the lack of charges will slow down games by a wide margin (especially spammable spells like Surge of Light are affected)

-> mindless strategies have a highly increased efficency 

-> some of the best cards are just straight up bad without upgrades (for instance playing u0 vs u3 Nightcrawler is actually game over unless your opponent plays very poorly)

-> PvP is solely competitive 

-> the new player experience for PvP is a big problem, because your opponent are more experienced AND got better upgrades (which leads to a horrible game experience) 

 

PvE is playable without upgrades

-> Every expert map is beatable without upgrades  

-> PvE is playable without any competitive aspects, you can just relax and have some fun playing with your friends

 

And at this point we get to the actual problem. Speedrunning definitely requires upgrades, but even at that aspect it's a much better situation compared to PvP, because the players who are passioned PvE players can actually grind for upgrades by playing the gamemode they actually like. 

 

PvE players can grind for upgrades by playing PvE 

-> you can just play your gamemode to grind and ignore PvP if you dislike it

-> the better you are the faster you'll be (winning in a shorter amount of time with a high reliabilty makes a big difference)

 

 seems good and doesn't need a change

 

PvP players can't grind for upgrades by playing PvP 

-> the amount of Battletokens you get by playing casual ranked games is non-existent

-> tome-ranked is awful (even the rework didn't save it) and the rewards are still laughable compared to something like rPvE

-> being very good/finishing games fast isn't as relevant (the amount of tokens you get scale up with gametime) 

 

 This is the problem!

 

So PvP players are forced to play PvE first to obtain their upgrades, which just allows them to start playing the game they want to play. Especially unexperienced PvE players (new players) would need even more time to recieve all their upgrades, which leads to a very frustrating game experience, if you are just around to play PvP. 

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From what you described here there are two huge issues. First one is that noone player tome ladder. Second is that PvP rewards weren't good enough. Well, changing upgrade system for PvP won't solve neither of those issues, it will be only a workaround. I belive that the topic shouldn't be 'Removing Upgrade System', it rather should be 'Improving PvP playerbase and economy'. 

 

Sure, PvP players shouldn't be forced to play PvE first, but it doesn't mean that certain game feature should be removed or changed drasticly. Eirias got quite interesting ideas about predefined decks for PvP. 'You want to play PvP only and ignore PvE? Sure, choose a predefine deck, that will allow you to play 120lv deck without grinding PvE.' If you still belive that grinding in PvP is worthless, since rewards are laughtable, maybe rewards should be reworked. Maybe tome ladder should have +1000% boost to reward. I don't know how reward system should be balanced without testing, but I belive that upgrade system should remain the same in both PvP and PvE.

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2 hours ago, Aazrl said:

. I belive that the topic shouldn't be 'Removing Upgrade System', it rather should be 'Improving PvP playerbase and economy'. 

Well, no . . . this thread is about removing the upgrade system and why/why not to do so/alternate ideas. 

I'm pretty sure there was a thread about improving the PvP playerbase. As I recall we mostly decided that we needed to keep new players. That means a lower barrier to entry (which inspired this thread, iirc), a better tutorial system (there's probably a thread about that somewhere) and continue the interaction between good players and new players (which inspired my thread about renting cards).

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On 15.4.2017 at 10:53 PM, synthc said:

The problem is that not everyone likes PvE.  Getting fewer rewards for playing PvP vs PvE is a terrible idea.  That's how the game worked originally and the grinding was so bad that even EA added tokens to ease the pain.  You should get the exact same number of rewards for your time spend in PvP and PvE.

I truly disagree with this.

Like the most people here already explained the most PvP players wont start playing PvP without a full upgraded deck anyway.

For PvP it is very important to have this upgrades to be competitive, that's why I think a new tome-concept should be implemented, so everyone has the same chances.

Otherwise you won't play PvP for grinding upgrades or tokens anyway, because without the upgrades you are in a disadvantage anyway and you wont get as much tokens for a lose as you would for a win.

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for me every change of the game even if its only for pvp will change the game. im happy that the buying options of BFP as well the daylie rewards of BFP wiell be changed but the rest can stay as it was. 

i mean i loved to play the game back then so wy would i change it into something complete diffrent (for me if you change over 20% of the game it becames somthing else)

i hear the word Competitive a lot in such topics but to stay realistic there are not so many games out there that grants 99% competitive. 

for example CS reaches 98% the old UT did reach 99% but as long you cant eliminate pings and get 0ms responding time it will never reach 100%

and Battleforge is a TCG so a game where u never be competitive during the collecting part of the game itself, but if you reach the end and have all cards on max u are competitive to others that have the same. its more a hillclimb in staying competitive: does you play the game as much as everyone else, does you have the same rng luck as everyone else, does u habe the same ping and ms delay as everyone else. over the short shot those things matter the most if its comes to competitiveness, in the long shot only ping and ms delay matters. 

so wy change the game? wy change the game from fun colecting and trading to boring you get anything what you want in an instand?

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The prob

14 hours ago, Asraiel said:

for me every change of the game even if its only for pvp will change the game. im happy that the buying options of BFP as well the daylie rewards of BFP wiell be changed but the rest can stay as it was. 

i mean i loved to play the game back then so wy would i change it into something complete diffrent (for me if you change over 20% of the game it becames somthing else)

i hear the word Competitive a lot in such topics but to stay realistic there are not so many games out there that grants 99% competitive. 

for example CS reaches 98% the old UT did reach 99% but as long you cant eliminate pings and get 0ms responding time it will never reach 100%

and Battleforge is a TCG so a game where u never be competitive during the collecting part of the game itself, but if you reach the end and have all cards on max u are competitive to others that have the same. its more a hillclimb in staying competitive: does you play the game as much as everyone else, does you have the same rng luck as everyone else, does u habe the same ping and ms delay as everyone else. over the short shot those things matter the most if its comes to competitiveness, in the long shot only ping and ms delay matters. 

so wy change the game? wy change the game from fun colecting and trading to boring you get anything what you want in an instand?

The problem is that the majority of the playerbase starts from a different point. In a new game everyones wants to get accustomated to the game and figure out how things work out exactly. 

In comparison to that in Battleforge there are already players who wen through this process and figured the game out to a degree where this process becomes a burden. That is true for especially high elo PVP players and also to a degree the speedrunners. Upgrade grinding adds for those players almost nothing to their game expereience and simply ends in a grind. 

While that is not true for probably a majority of the playerbase it is a huge onstacle for everyone who wants to play the game on its highest possible level. 

Fue to the different starting position in terms of playerbase and especially player experience a change is not only desireable but necassary.

While this leads probably to a different game experience and a "new game" that is definetly necassary to keep the "elites" of the game here. 

To add to this Battleforge always was a grind heavy game which is generally not very appealling to new players. I feel like getting an easier access to the game by acquiring upgrades easier will help the game getting new players and holding them. 

Therefor there need to be changes to get high elo players to play the game but also to get new players into the game. Obviously there still needs to be some kind of progression. 

This can be acquired by either seperating PVP or parts of it from the rest of the game or by finding a balance of grindig and easy access to upgrades

 

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well the removal of the token for upgrades is allredy an improvment in speed and less grinding. but uppgradecards still needs to be grinded so wy not go simply and add a bosster with only upgradecards in it. 

jep new players will have to learn how the game works but as for every other game there are a lot of topics or guides to follow and to improof at a higher speed. 

i have to say grinding and collecting is for me the most interesting part of the game. beating pve is second (always loved to play 100% cleaner of enemys). 3 was for me pvp because i had an anger problem back then.

well i dont be against something that help new players to be better in pvp but if you just give them a fully designed deck about 70% dont see the diffrence to an other deck (like the counterclass). so a guide or better a video does get them way faster to the point than only a deck. and they learn the basic stuff during pve (at least at the start)

for the old players or how you called them as "elite" they know the game and will not back off if they have to do a little grinding. new plyers will have it hard againt "elite" players doesnt differ to other games. 

and if there will be such a pre prepaired deck only with a guide to it so they know how to use it to shorten the learning process

 

for me even the tokens could stay in the game maybe increasing the drop but yeah like i said remove the buying option for bfp and add more bfp do daylie reward. and maybe to get everyone boosted special events that will rise the loot like: chrismas time, easter, annyversary  always like a month with 2x or more loot or special treats like on valentinesday is one reward a booster pack. that way new and younger players see that the game is still active and they can gear up faster.

 

i guess all those discutions arent ment to be in the game at release or i hope so. for later on changes thats may be something (1/2 years or later) but defently not at the release

On 16.4.2017 at 2:53 AM, RadicalX said:

PvP players can't grind for upgrades by playing PvP 

well maybe add a currency to the game that only can be optained in pvp and with them u can by upgradecards booster pack. so they dont have to grind pve but the disadvantage is that those booster ar rng. not like pve maps where you know what u can get. but can help at least a bit maybe sorted by upgrade lvl so that you have 3 diffrent boosters with 1. u1 cards basic price, 2. u2 cards 2x basic price, 3. u3 cards 3x basic price. how to get the curency will be to discution so maybe only optaineble in ranked pvp and winner gets 70-80% and looser 20-30% of the match price curency so that both have something from it and players get animated to pvp as well.

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I may have an idea to solve this problem (probably a bad idea, but I share it anyway, who knows ^^) : giving each account 2 "characters" : a "normal" one (where they have to play in order to earn BFP and gold to unlock cards and upgrades, so they have to play the game and grind it in order to develop their card list), and another one with everything unlocked at the beginning (all cards, all upgrades, all charges,...).

This way everyone has what he wants : PvP and speed-runners have fully upgraded decks, and "nomral" players have to grind the game and have the good feeling to open boosters or get the upgrade they were looking for for some time.

I'm not sure if this is realistic, the major problem I see is that some players will directly go with the fully unlocked character and will be quickly bored of the game, or new players will be overtaken by the amount of cards and will quit the game before they have the chance to handle it. To prevent this we could enable this second character only to players who request it to the devs or something like that.

 

Also, I agree with the idea to remove the charges. It just forces players to collect 4 time as much cards, and of course the rarer the card is, the hardest it is to obtains all charges. I think charges could be included with upgrades, so U0 card have 0 charges, U1 have 1 charge,...

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On 4/17/2017 at 0:46 PM, DefAnske said:

I truly disagree with this.

Like the most people here already explained the most PvP players wont start playing PvP without a full upgraded deck anyway.

For PvP it is very important to have this upgrades to be competitive, that's why I think a new tome-concept should be implemented, so everyone has the same chances.

Otherwise you won't play PvP for grinding upgrades or tokens anyway, because without the upgrades you are in a disadvantage anyway and you wont get as much tokens for a lose as you would for a win.

Regardless of what the fix for PvP upgrades is, PvP and PvE should always give the same amount of rewards per time spent.  Even if we were to go with a tome-like system (like Eirias' suggestion), playing PvP with tomes should still give the same rewards so that you can upgrade your own decks instead of being stuck playing tome forever.

Also, even after we do get a fully upgraded PvP deck to play with, we don't want to be stuck with only that deck for a really long time—we want to be able to upgrade cards to build other decks as well.  There's simply no reason for PvE to give more rewards than PvP.  See my suggestions here:  

 

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Posted (edited)

On 20.4.2017 at 9:35 AM, Aegis1020 said:

Also, I agree with the idea to remove the charges. It just forces players to collect 4 time as much cards, and of course the rarer the card is, the hardest it is to obtains all charges. I think charges could be included with upgrades, so U0 card have 0 charges, U1 have 1 charge,...

if you would remove charges u would only create an overflow of cards since boosterback give you more common and uncommon cards than the rest. you may counter the problem by adding a 2. boosterpack with higher price and more than just 1 slot for rare and ultrarare cards. but that maybe to much of an disadvantage again even if the price would be only 50% higher than a normal booster you would end up with half the cards.

in the other hand you can say if you focus 1. on one deck you will have not that much problems to get the charges only the price might be higher the faster you wanna get these. because not every player wants instand all color decks for pvp. 

and playing pvp doesnt need to be allways with the best of the best cards. its even more challengeing to play not with them. but i understand wy racing with a trabant if you can race with a ferrari. 

tome deck for later game contend (for new players 6-12 months after release) might be good but as mentioned its getting not so usefull if let alone without any guide or tutorial. well player that know BF will not have the problem but ever new player dont know how to play these and if you give them such a deck and they playing pvp before they know how the game works and how pvp works they only ending up as easy targets, and it sucks to be an easy target. its not like an egoshooter - aim, shoot, kill, win - or an rpg - hit enemy with so many skills until his red bar disapears - not even like and old fashion C&C rts where - dmg=dmg - no its something more delicate. with all the counterclass, energy management, tier count, special abilitys, ect. these are things that you learn slowly by progressing in pve without tome because u read and compose your decks yourway so you get forced to use the brain to get better and you leard the units and their skills and that they get better or get more skills if you upgrade them. important is for me that you need to know if you wanna enter pvp. know what the enemy unit counterclass is and what does it counter, knowing abilitys, spells, knowing powermanagement, ect. simply all the things that arent included in a fully upgraded Tome deck

PVE is in every game the Sandbox where you learn the basics of pvp and where you can try out new things befor testing it in pvp

only with a few diffrence like they do not play like players, they are predictable, dont use spells, dont need power, are op at the start but playing kinda like idiots because ai is bad. but if your brainless they kill you. i remember back in my teens i played Unreal Tournament 2003 i was realy good in pvp (not the best but good) then i played once a pve death match on the highes difficulty 2-5 sec dead, 2-5 sec dead and so on (1 shot kills sinper deathmatch). but this is rts and pve is kinda the same as in C&C enemy hase base lot of cash and units follows spcific paths with unis. and only attack you with small squads of a few units. if it would be an player he would throw everything he got at once at you and you be dead. but you learn to use your units to kill the enemy by gerillia and in the end you exactly know what each unit can do and what not so the basics.

 

got a bit longer that i wanted

Edited by Asraiel

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3 hours ago, Asraiel said:

and playing pvp doesnt need to be allways with the best of the best cards.

PvP needs the cards that are needed to play competitve, wich are the best cards. Not necessarily the most expensive ones. But having unfair matches, a hard time and less fun is not an option for most PvP players.

3 hours ago, Asraiel said:

PVE is in every game the Sandbox where you learn the basics of pvp and where you can try out new things befor testing it in pvp

In Battleforge next to nothing about PvP can be larned in PVE. In my 2 years of casually playing PVE i got about 3% of my current PvP knowledge. When i jumped into PvP after 1 or 2 years of being really interested in the game and having all cards i was still at the lowest level of PvP skill. I wouldn't have done worse if i had started PVP without playing PVE before, maybe even better. I learned nothing about counterysytem, mechanisms of poweflow or why it is important to no not lose a well. The problem arises because you can have casual PVE fun without realising how complex the game is and most information is easy to find on the internet but unfortunately not so much ingame.

There are also a lot of cards that are pretty much PVP-exclusive and you won't get to see/use them in PvE.

3 hours ago, Asraiel said:

if you would remove charges u would only create an overflow of cards since boosterback give you more common and uncommon cards than the rest.

The same overflow of cards exists with charges!? Needing only 25% of each card doesn't change the ratio of UR:common. In the end players had 250 lighblades in the old game, too.

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On 23.4.2017 at 11:07 AM, SunWu II. said:

PvP needs the cards that are needed to play competitve, wich are the best cards. Not necessarily the most expensive ones. But having unfair matches, a hard time and less fun is not an option for most PvP players.

not if every participant agree to use less rare cards. only if u jump in a random pvp this may be the truth but if for example me and you both agree to use only common and uncommon cards for a pvp match then both stay competitive. only thing needed i to talk with your counterpart and be honest.

On 23.4.2017 at 11:07 AM, SunWu II. said:

In Battleforge next to nothing about PvP can be larned in PVE. 

well you learn that you need tiers that it is better to stay to 1-2 colors than use all 4, you know what your cards can do and what the enemy cards can do, that power isnt infinit, that you need more t1 and t2 cards than t4, basic about power gain from wells as well power payback from using spell dieing creatures and destroyed buldings (own). the counter is also there even if you just can overpower the enemy in numbre, but u have the change to learn counter (but would be better if there would be an tutorial) in my opinion if i take all the knowlege that you can learn during PvE that can also be used in pvp i get on arround 40%. knowlege of the cards is the mose important you dont have time to read enemy card skills or their counter during a pvp match you have to recall it from your memory. but sady PvE in battleforge is restikted to 2 color cards (bandit, stonekin, twilight and lost soul) as enemys and no pure enemys. 

during PvP its also needless to say not every one had all cards if you dont jump in and only battle the top 100 that is. when i stared pvp i had also no real clue about counter but the first 10 1v1 i won, maybe i was lucky and only got enemys with less clue.

On 23.4.2017 at 11:07 AM, SunWu II. said:

The same overflow of cards exists with charges!? Needing only 25% of each card doesn't change the ratio of UR:common. In the end players had 250 lighblades in the old game, too.

thats may be tru fro someone that played since start i wasnt near 20 of each even had a lot of cards i only got 1 or less. but battleforge is for me a trading card game and if you take that away its 70% less interesting for me i love collecting and grinding. i also love to push the upgrade button and see how my card got better its a nice feeling its pushing the hype for more its like a drug you want more and more.

 

to provent such a thing you named maybe the game offers later on a shreader where you can shread your cards and get BFP back like common = 1 BFP, uncommon = 2 BFP, rare = 3 BFP, ultrarare = 4 BFP. if such a thing is added you cant say that anymore but to be honest in order to get 250 common of one type you will have to play several years in the released version becase you cant buy BFP

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2 hours ago, Asraiel said:

not if every participant agree to use less rare cards. only if u jump in a random pvp this may be the truth but if for example me and you both agree to use only common and uncommon cards for a pvp match then both stay competitive. only thing needed i to talk with your counterpart and be honest.

That is a little bit too naive, don't you think. Competitive play generally means ranked games. You can not check decks or make any agreements with the guy you face afaik, unless every player that plays ranked would agree on only using those cards - which is highly unlikely. Also restricting card pools can not be a solution to this imo.

Making agreements about card pools is fine if you just seek for fun, but it is pretty much a catastrophe for competitive play, especially when the card pool would be as huge as all rares and ultra rares which is probably about 1/3 of all cards.

2 hours ago, Asraiel said:

well you learn that you need tiers that it is better to stay to 1-2 colors than use all 4, you know what your cards can do and what the enemy cards can do, that power isnt infinit, that you need more t1 and t2 cards than t4, basic about power gain from wells as well power payback from using spell dieing creatures and destroyed buldings (own). the counter is also there even if you just can overpower the enemy in numbre, but u have the change to learn counter (but would be better if there would be an tutorial) in my opinion if i take all the knowlege that you can learn during PvE that can also be used in pvp i get on arround 40%. knowlege of the cards is the mose important you dont have time to read enemy card skills or their counter during a pvp match you have to recall it from your memory. but sady PvE in battleforge is restikted to 2 color cards (bandit, stonekin, twilight and lost soul) as enemys and no pure enemys. 

PVE is mostly about learning the basic game elements and cards. While those elements are important they are also just basics. It is a basic requirement to be not a complete noob in PVP. The problem about the counter system in PVE f.e. is that it is simply not necassary to use it and still be able to clear any PVE map without any difficulty. In combination with all the other new stuff for new players and that there is no obvious hint on what it does, makes it basically unnoticed until someone tells you which is generally when you approach PVP or have so many hours in the game that you simply wonder what it does. PVE doesn't teach you anything about the PVP metagame. Good PVE cards can be the most useless stuff in PVP (and vice versa), f.e. t4 units. Micromanagement is pretty much nonexistant in PVE but very important in PVP, Knowledge about matchups and how to play certain situations wont ever be learnable in PVE. Just to name a few things that are very important and become a basic requirement when you reach a point where people actually get a decent understanding of the game. Most of this is completely unnecassary when playing on the lower levels of PVP and you still can be successful there but it becomes more and more important

 

 

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On 26.4.2017 at 1:04 PM, Treim said:

That is a little bit too naive, don't you think. Competitive play generally means ranked games. You can not check decks or make any agreements with the guy you face afaik, unless every player that plays ranked would agree on only using those cards - which is highly unlikely. Also restricting card pools can not be a solution to this imo.

Making agreements about card pools is fine if you just seek for fun, but it is pretty much a catastrophe for competitive play, especially when the card pool would be as huge as all rares and ultra rares which is probably about 1/3 of all cards.

was meaning pvp in non ranked

in ranked u will have same problems as everyone else which leads to competitivness. for example as i entered pvp was rank somewhere on 10k-20k and there they had same cards upgrades and with every win i got higher rank but that also gave me time to get my hands on better cards and buing more boosters. and even thru the basic pve content which i did i got many upgradecards even befor i had the card itself, so i only needed to buy the specific card out of the market and had the upgrade. only thing i realy had to gind was tokens so RPvE. well i may coulnd buy the one i wonted because it was to expensive so i did buy others that worked as well. but that is the basic process for everyone. so i stood always competitive to others on my rank. yep have to say that wasnt competitive to the top players. 

and then over all its a game that i play to have fun and a good time. i may not be so deam focused on a numbre but back then it was more players that had no rl, that spended to much money or played way longer than me. so i wasnt unhappy to not be on their low numbre, in the end the rank doesnt grant any bonusess at all.

On 26.4.2017 at 1:04 PM, Treim said:

PVE is mostly about learning the basic game elements and cards. While those elements are important they are also just basics. It is a basic requirement to be not a complete noob in PVP. The problem about the counter system in PVE f.e. is that it is simply not necassary to use it and still be able to clear any PVE map without any difficulty. In combination with all the other new stuff for new players and that there is no obvious hint on what it does, makes it basically unnoticed until someone tells you which is generally when you approach PVP or have so many hours in the game that you simply wonder what it does. PVE doesn't teach you anything about the PVP metagame. Good PVE cards can be the most useless stuff in PVP (and vice versa), f.e. t4 units. Micromanagement is pretty much nonexistant in PVE but very important in PVP, Knowledge about matchups and how to play certain situations wont ever be learnable in PVE. Just to name a few things that are very important and become a basic requirement when you reach a point where people actually get a decent understanding of the game. Most of this is completely unnecassary when playing on the lower levels of PVP and you still can be successful there but it becomes more and more important

thats wy i mentioned to add a toutorial that would help new players more than a highend deck, or something added to pve missions that explains the diffrence in counterclass and the symbols on the cards itself. also i guess most posters for a such created pvp deck are old players and little to no new player to the game did post in here.

 

Quote from FAQ

Will all cards be instantly available to every player?
No. Collecting cards was a vital and fun part of the game so new players will start off with a standard deck you used to get when creating a new account for BattleForge when it went free to play. Using BFP you obtain daily, you can then open boosters and use the auction hall to obtain and sell new cards. Direct trading will also be an option as usual.

 

from the topics name i would only be ok that entering pvp with our deck does give u uppgrades in regard of rarety of the cards

common u3, uncommon u2, rare u1, unltrarare u0 with the upgrade avaieble carges. only if the card in your deck has a lower upgrade lvl.

Edited by Asraiel

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