Cyber Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) Sup everyone, I'm playing pure fire with this deck. I have 7 cards in my t1 and right now the deck level is 104. I tried to build a fire nature deck or fire frost but I'm having a hard time keeping 7 cards in my t1 and still having a good fire/nature or fire/frost deck. Is it possible to build a well-balanced PvP deck with 7 cards in fire t1? (beside pure fire) and if so how would you do it? would love to hear your thoughts about it, thanks. Edited October 16, 2018 by Cyber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunWu Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) If you wanna have at least 3 T3 cards still, maybe bandits. Fire/Nature and Fire/Frost really don't do well without all of the ,,must have'' cards while bandits is relatively versatile when it comes to deckbuilding. In fact it's the best deck (besides pure fire) if you wanna play a big and long T1, bandits T2 isn't the strongest anyways, so you're forced to win some matchups in T1 and the huge T2/T3 powerflow after a long T1 also benefits bandits. example: T2: rallying banner, nightcrawler, darkelfs, scythe fiends, skyfire drake, lavafield, ravage, lifeweaving, disenchant, aura of corruption T3: soulhunter, giantslyer, ashbone pyro Edited October 16, 2018 by SunWu II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eirias Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 10 hours ago, Cyber said: Sup everyone, I'm playing pure fire with this deck. I have 7 cards in my t1 and right now the deck level is 104. I tried to build a fire nature deck or fire frost but I'm having a hard time keeping 7 cards in my t1 and still having a good fire/nature or fire/frost deck. Is it possible to build a well-balanced PvP deck with 7 cards in fire t1? (beside pure fire) and if so how would you do it? would love to hear your thoughts about it, thanks. 7 cards is absolutely doable. I use 5-7 in my fire-nature deck, which I change out depending on my opponents and if they've realized that I don't have something (okay, rn I only have 5 cards because I can't afford the other 2). It also depends on how long you want to stay t1, esp against t2. For an in-depth discussion about t1, you can read my guide--if you want something shorter and more to-the point, RadicalX and Hiroo made a faction overview. But specific advice for you: if you like this deck, you will lose almost nothing by dropping wrecker. It might help you in the frost/nature t1 matchups, but those should be fine with mortar and imo it's a waste unless you need charges are are trying to surprise someone. So that gives you an extra spot. The largest t1 I play is [scavenger, sunstrider, eruption, mortar, firesworn, sunderer]. But I'm more used to playing [scavenger, sunstrider, eruption, mortar, thugs]. After playing with @RadicalX I've really come to appreciate the value of sunderers against shadow, and firesworn helps defend against certain t2 rushes with mountaineer, etc. They're not super necessary imo, unless your opponent has figured out you don't have them. With fire-nature, my biggest advice is to cut down on t3. 1 or 2 cards is enough. Fire nature has the weakest t3, so if you get to a high-power t3 situation, you're probably lost. My most successful decks (back in the old days) took a larger t1 at the sacrifice of t3. I would usually only take giant slayer (and sometimes magma hurler to counter some t2). I'd try to play an early t3 and overwhelm my opponent with giant slayers before he could get t3 going. In 2v2s I'd usually play a slightly smaller t1 (for instance, my partner might be able to have a good S counter or L counter, so I might not need thugs or firesworn) and I'd add in earthshaker. That gave me an option to survive/win super high t3 power levels, where I'd be useless trying to take virtuoso or something like that. Fire frost is something else entirely. But you still don't need wreckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) On 10/16/2018 at 10:54 PM, SunWu II. said: If you wanna have at least 3 T3 cards still, maybe bandits. Fire/Nature and Fire/Frost really don't do well without all of the ,,must have'' cards while bandits is relatively versatile when it comes to deckbuilding. In fact it's the best deck (besides pure fire) if you wanna play a big and long T1, bandits T2 isn't the strongest anyways, so you're forced to win some matchups in T1 and the huge T2/T3 powerflow after a long T1 also benefits bandits. example: T2: rallying banner, nightcrawler, darkelfs, scythe fiends, skyfire drake, lavafield, ravage, lifeweaving, disenchant, aura of corruption T3: soulhunter, giantslyer, ashbone pyro Actually managed to make some nice fire/nature and fire/frost decks with 6cards in t1 and 3 in t3: (Still need upgrades and charges though) What do you mean by "they don't do well with all the must have cards"? And I'm not a big fan of bandits but I might try it out one day 16 hours ago, Eirias said: 7 cards is absolutely doable. I use 5-7 in my fire-nature deck, which I change out depending on my opponents and if they've realized that I don't have something (okay, rn I only have 5 cards because I can't afford the other 2). It also depends on how long you want to stay t1, esp against t2. For an in-depth discussion about t1, you can read my guide--if you want something shorter and more to-the point, RadicalX and Hiroo made a faction overview. But specific advice for you: if you like this deck, you will lose almost nothing by dropping wrecker. It might help you in the frost/nature t1 matchups, but those should be fine with mortar and imo it's a waste unless you need charges are are trying to surprise someone. So that gives you an extra spot. The largest t1 I play is [scavenger, sunstrider, eruption, mortar, firesworn, sunderer]. But I'm more used to playing [scavenger, sunstrider, eruption, mortar, thugs]. After playing with @RadicalX I've really come to appreciate the value of sunderers against shadow, and firesworn helps defend against certain t2 rushes with mountaineer, etc. They're not super necessary imo, unless your opponent has figured out you don't have them. With fire-nature, my biggest advice is to cut down on t3. 1 or 2 cards is enough. Fire nature has the weakest t3, so if you get to a high-power t3 situation, you're probably lost. My most successful decks (back in the old days) took a larger t1 at the sacrifice of t3. I would usually only take giant slayer (and sometimes magma hurler to counter some t2). I'd try to play an early t3 and overwhelm my opponent with giant slayers before he could get t3 going. In 2v2s I'd usually play a slightly smaller t1 (for instance, my partner might be able to have a good S counter or L counter, so I might not need thugs or firesworn) and I'd add in earthshaker. That gave me an option to survive/win super high t3 power levels, where I'd be useless trying to take virtuoso or something like that. Fire frost is something else entirely. But you still don't need wreckers. Fire has a pretty strong t1 so I love to play it long if I can, and if you're opponent goes t2 and you're not in a disadvantage you can easily rush him, so I don't want to cut out to many cards on t1 - otherwise I think I should always play pure fire to allow myself that big t1. Your post looks extremely detailed, thanks, I will defiantly read it later. I read their faction overview and realy liked it, agreed with the most and learned alot, I even found out the fire/frost deck I made was almost exactly as their fire/frost deck, I just replaced firesworn with sunderer. In most cases you will face in t1 shadow or fire and sunderer is realy helpful in t1 rushing against them. And firesworn is a pretty useless card imo, not only he cost alot of power for what he does, he dies very fast. Is just better to use other counters -> in t1 for example against sunderer you can use scavanger to bodyblock and sunstriders at same cost(110), and in t2 you can use t2 cards, which are much stronger, like enforcer and gladiatrix for example. However the fire/nature was'nt the same, they did'nt put thugs which imo can give you a disadvantage in some t1 fights. Also as much as scythe fiends is a strong card I found it unnecessary as a S counter, because you have hurricane and ghostspears which are pretty strong and they can even killed buffed commandos or defenders, and if that's not enough you can even use mauler. Also because you can only use 1 brannoc at a time I would replace scythefiends with virtuoso, which is not only strong against buildings it has very high dps against L units as well. About wrecker I agree is not always necessary, but beside fire/nature is realy helpful against scavengers and is also nice to pop out a sunderer and rush, his ability costs only 20 and lasts for 30 seconds, which is kinda insane imo. Still had to take him out though. About the t3 if you take virtuoso, giant slayer and brannoc is pretty decent, I wish the twilight units will get buffed one day so they won't be that weak, would also be cool if the transformation was realy worth it. About 2vs2, I agree but in some maps is a split 1vs1 so you can't always count on your teammate and you could use the help of thugs for example. Thanks for the reply! will defiantly check your guide later, and btw keep with the videos, they're very helpful and fun to watch. Edited October 17, 2018 by Cyber Loriens likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eirias Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Cyber said: I just replaced firesworn with sunderer. In most cases you will face in t1 shadow or fire and sunderer is realy helpful in t1 rushing against them. And firesworn is a pretty useless card imo, not only he cost alot of power for what he does, he dies very fast. Is just better to use other counters -> in t1 for example against sunderer you can use scavanger to bodyblock and sunstriders at same cost(110), and in t2 you can use t2 cards, which are much stronger, like enforcer and gladiatrix for example. Well, I guess it depends on your playstyle. My usual gameplan is to play a passive/defensive t1, get relatively high power, and defend against early t2, then use my high power t2 to overrun my opponent. If you want to stay t1 vs t2, firesworn is very important against mountaineer. It's probably possible to defend against vileblood, lost reaver, and deep one without it, but it's hard. Firesworn is also kinda good vs nature (and frost) because he can't be hurricaned. Not an expert on the nature matchup though, so idk how important that is. With fire-nature, if I lose in t2 it's almost always because I get rushed by a ton of darkelf assassins. Ghostspears are just not good enough against them. You can use cc's and hurricane to survive for some time, but your opponent will just build up a power advantage. I agree with you in principle--for a long time I played fire-nature without hurricane OR scythe fiends, but once someone figures out that you're helpless vs DA, the game is short. Using thugs is another philosophical question. RadicalX built his decks around the highest-skill meta. If you're super good and your micro is flawless, I believe there are several players who proved you don't need thugs. But they're a nice crutch for those less micro-inclined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunWu Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Yeah the fire frost deck is definetly alright, but i think you really need scythe fiends for your fire /nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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