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Wampire

Amii cards and Fire/Blue

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While I was making a post about favourite double color cards, I thought of the Amii Card called "Amii Phantom".

I always felt like one Amii card wasn't enough and It deserved to become another one of the main two color type cards like bandits, twilight etc.

It's a shame that this type was never expanded and there was only one Amii Card ever created. For me it could have been nice opportunity to have 4 main types of Two Colored cards.

So what are your thoughts about the whole Amii Type?

Do you think there should have been more Amii cards and why?

Have you ever wanted Fire/Blue to become an actual type and complete all possible variations?

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 Yes to both there should have been more Amii cards, and there very much should be a fire frost color combination. Main reason i think ea didn't expand on it is that they didn't see the worth or it was further down the line/in progress as it got shutdown.*Insert EA hate here*

Ok so main reason why i think there should be both of these color combinations is that every other one is supported, and before Amii phantom you could of used the excuse of theses colors being polar opposite therefore not possible to mix, Fire frost is a good example of this as at t2 there are spells called global warming and ice age. Shadow nature life death, they don't really thematically mix, at least until t4 spells, ill touch on this later. But now that precedent is set it feel right to flesh out the remaining two color combinations and the world itself. Because hey more cards to play with, and who doesn't like that.

So onto my thoughts, which probably belong in a different thread I'm sure exist, but is likely long since dead. The Amii type currently has ''3'' cards, amii monument, amii phantom and amii ritual. From this im going to draw of the idea of the amii are very capable with magic, and we know due to missions and such that amii structures and the like tend to have effects from gateways to unleashing spells, to barriers. The colors also tap into both death and life, and the closest ive seen the 2 colors is in the form of second chance and promise of life. both of which revive creatures upon death. So i feel like the Amii should be a very spirit/revenant theme for units possibly even constructs, in part due to their control over magic, part ancientness they seemed to have existed since before any other faction, with structures that provide area control almost like mark of the keeper, structures could also act similarly to alter of chaos, or necroblaster in which they need some sort of fuel, either in the form of corpses of just large amount of raw power for strong effects. As for spells, i personally would like to see few or no spells in the Amii as from what we know they are very good with magic, but instead of tying those to actual cards funnel it into structure effects and unit.

As for fire frost i've seen some idea of mech/robots floating around even air. This is a tricky one to decide on as we have little to nothing to go on. I like the idea of a steam punk artifact that synergize well with small units, as a theme of both fire and frost, is that of human surviving and using their brains to their advantage, they got tired of having to rely on skylord's and magic to survive and they eventually made a technological break through, perhaps the gimmick could be that the robot/mech units are treated as structures as well as units, letting them utilize the structure/anti structure synergy from fire and frost, Their structures could be defensive in nature while allowing for aggressive styles of play like ice barrier does, perhaps and expansion on that, similar to how shrine of martyr and banner of glory would work. Or instead of mechs, just large construct/artifacts that allow for units to be mounted on them, breathe new life to ships and things like similar to the nox carrier. Spells could require more time to activate as if they were command for some distant location sending long range support, but have a multitude of effects, or you could go the alchemical route and the spells would be various chemical concoctions that came with tha steampunk revolution that can both buff or debuff.

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Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
I was waiting so long for someone to respond and share his thoughts, I saw many people who thought that Amii should have been expnaded way more and I also saw many people who would like Fire/Frost to be actual thing. I really like all stuff you mentioned here, many people complains how they cannot read more than two lines of text, but I was just hypnotized by your reply. I couldn't stop reading until I reached the end. You mentioned many stuff that I forgot completely or I wasn't aware of.

So starting of with the Amii topic, I think that it's mainly EA's fault too. I cannot see any reason why would you make one card of some type (in this case Green/Purple) and then just leave it and not expand the whole type. It almost feels like unfinished painting and makes you a bit frustrated and makes you wonder how would it look like and how many great looking cards would we gotten if only BattleForge would live a bit longer and they would actualy make another expansion and expand the whole Green/Purple type.

As you mentioned and I didn't thought of was the fact that Amii is like legendary almost god power, I mean obviously Nature is life and Shadow is Death connecting those two gives you Life and Death, and as we all know there is no life without death and no death without life. It's connecting very nicely and who has better control over life and death if not gods. The thing that you also mentioned that frustrated me A LOT was the fact of existing card called Amii Ritual. As for the monument, it makes sense why it's neutral. It seems like something that should be legendary and shouldn't be accessable by any double color type factions or whatever you want to call it. Besides it's something that's part of whole gameplay like in game structures. It makes sense to me that it's neutral like Moon, Viridya etc. They are something that's just something that lives in part of game's world and something that is living without player's influence, so that makes sense that it's neutral. I hope you know what I mean. You probably wonder why then I brought up the fact of Amii Ritual and why it was always frustrating me, well that's because I hated that it's a Frost Card, I always thought that since it's Amii, it should have been Green/Purple. I don't think there was much reason for it to be Frost. I'm pretty sure that if they were going to make whole Amii type cards, I am sure it would become part of it too, instead of Frost. I'm almost sure that the fact that it became Frost was that since they weren't going to make whole Amii type (Green/Purple) and/or even that maybe they actually wanted so badly or had very nice ideas for it, they wanted to make those cards anyways and since they weren't going to make more Green/Purple, they kinda scattered them around and that's why Amii Ritual landed in Frost Type for some reason.

Just to quickly add, I had awesome idea and I thought one of the units of such Amii type, so Life and Death, should have been (for ranged units type) ghosts would throw something like the balls that you could saw happen in Lost Souls when Lost Soul unit died. I don't know how would you explained them, but I think they could been like some sort of magic ranged units. They would look something like this: they would float a bit above the ground like Lich from Heroes of Might And Magic V, they would have black hoods and long dark capes covering they whole torso. From the inside of hood you could see white or red eyes looking something like Spirit Hunters, but more leaving trail like Lost Soul units, maybe they would even have some book with them or something, they wouldn't have physical form so you would only see those eyes and whole body would be shaped, but slightly distorted by something looking like gas forming something looking like actual body, something similiar to Heroes Of Might And Magic V unit called Spectre.

Second idea I had was that the biggest unit and the most powerful you could summon would be Grim Reaper. It's simple and I think the best idea, it would be amazing to see Grim Reaper unit in BattleForge and it would suit as the best Amii unit ever, he is the one takes away life, he is death himself.

With Grim Reaper as a card, I think Amii would even beat my love for Bandit cards and I think they would even go to the first spot of my favourite two colored type cards.

As for the Fire/Frost, I'm actually amazed and blown away. I was wondering for so much time how would Fire/Frost look like? They were complete opposite, but with you explanation I realized that it's obvious that if you would add something very hot to something cold, it would result in steam. I love the idea of steampunk units, , maybe not mechs and if mechs, I think it should have been something with bolts and rachets. The units should have been black and gold and background of each card should been steam colored almost gold like desert wind. I love this idea and it actually doesn't break the whole BattleForge vibe and style. It's not like Heroes Of Might And Magic III were authors wanted to add cyborg city and break whole fantasy world and feel, which of course later on changed into Conflux. I can see steampunk units going around BattleForge lands. I mean Bandit units are very close to steampunk feel and Fire units, so I think the actual fully steampunk units would fit perfectly and makes perfect sense that if you burn water the steam comes out, so even from elements perspective it makes total sense.

Anyways, thank you erakus very much for your response, It's really awesome vision and thoughts you have and I really liked your whole explanation and I'm really glad that you took your time to join my debate and write all this.

Edited by Wampire

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5 hours ago, Darmonic said:

Pretty sure the Red and Blue cards were going to be the "Skanes" faction with the Purple and Green being the "Amii faction" .

Never heard of the skanes, do you know anything more than a name, because that name makes me think of vikings for some reason. Seafaring, raiding, pillaging.

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10 hours ago, erakus said:

Never heard of the skanes, do you know anything more than a name, because that name makes me think of vikings for some reason. Seafaring, raiding, pillaging.

Pretty sure in the lore the Skanes are the half giants or something. When the giants ruled they enslaved mortals, pretty sure Skanes have something to do with that. Man that'd be nuts if Fire/Frost was a thing. So many strong cards in fire now covered by their greatest weakness....CC :o

EDIT: Just found it on the wiki! Third paragraph on this link mate - http://battleforge.wikia.com/wiki/Giant

Edited by A Potato in HD

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2 hours ago, A Potato in HD said:

Pretty sure in the lore the Skanes are the half giants or something. When the giants ruled they enslaved mortals, pretty sure Skanes have something to do with that. Man that'd be nuts if Fire/Frost was a thing. So many strong cards in fire now covered by their greatest weakness....CC :o

EDIT: Just found it on the wiki! Third paragraph on this link mate - http://battleforge.wikia.com/wiki/Giant

Wow, that's an interesting information. Thank you for sharing it with us. I never heared anyone mention this name: Skanes.

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The combination of Fire and Frost is for me STEAM. 

And with that units with a maschine design would fit. But i have no clue what kind of ability might fit.

Maybe release Steam and its a shield to ally units and damage to enemy.

Edited by Hans275

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I don't think you can blame EA directly for every kind of issue, like the lack of expansions/content.

ANd regarding fire/frost, it's hard to balance that combination into the rest of the color pool as both colors bring their respective spells etc. into the mix. And then there's new 3 color combinations too. Not saying its a bad thing, it's just hard to balance this out despite bringing up a reasonable unit design and models altogether

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40 minutes ago, xs0ulLess said:

I don't think you can blame EA directly for every kind of issue, like the lack of expansions/content.

ANd regarding fire/frost, it's hard to balance that combination into the rest of the color pool as both colors bring their respective spells etc. into the mix. And then there's new 3 color combinations too. Not saying its a bad thing, it's just hard to balance this out despite bringing up a reasonable unit design and models altogether

Maybe, we will never know for sure, but in this case I think there is very high chance, because you don't just simply make some new type just to make one card for it, if they knew there won't be any more Amii Cards, they could have made Amii Phantom a neutral card just like Amii Monument.

Edited by Wampire

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On 2/14/2018 at 8:35 PM, Hans275 said:

The combination of Fire and Frost is for me STEAM. 

And with that units with a maschine design would fit. But i have no clue what kind of ability might fit.

Maybe release Steam and its a shield to ally units and damage to enemy.

Steampunk style faction! <3

1 hour ago, xs0ulLess said:

I don't think you can blame EA directly for every kind of issue, like the lack of expansions/content.

ANd regarding fire/frost, it's hard to balance that combination into the rest of the color pool as both colors bring their respective spells etc. into the mix. And then there's new 3 color combinations too. Not saying its a bad thing, it's just hard to balance this out despite bringing up a reasonable unit design and models altogether

The 3+ color combinations sound really cool!

And maybe even add new colors.. Like "light" to counter "shadow" or something like that...

Why stay on 4 orb colors? (Rainbow power lol)

Edited by Jothah

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On 12.2.2018 at 2:20 AM, Wampire said:

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
I was waiting so long for someone to respond and share his thoughts, I saw many people who thought that Amii should have been expnaded way more and I also saw many people who would like Fire/Frost to be actual thing. I really like all stuff you mentioned here, many people complains how they cannot read more than two lines of text, but I was just hypnotized by your reply. I couldn't stop reading until I reached the end. You mentioned many stuff that I forgot completely or I wasn't aware of.

So starting of with the Amii topic, I think that it's mainly EA's fault too. I cannot see any reason why would you make one card of some type (in this case Green/Purple) and then just leave it and not expand the whole type. It almost feels like unfinished painting and makes you a bit frustrated and makes you wonder how would it look like and how many great looking cards would we gotten if only BattleForge would live a bit longer and they would actualy make another expansion and expand the whole Green/Purple type.

As you mentioned and I didn't thought of was the fact that Amii is like legendary almost god power, I mean obviously Nature is life and Shadow is Death connecting those two gives you Life and Death, and as we all know there is no life without death and no death without life. It's connecting very nicely and who has better control over life and death if not gods. The thing that you also mentioned that frustrated me A LOT was the fact of existing card called Amii Ritual. As for the monument, it makes sense why it's neutral. It seems like something that should be legendary and shouldn't be accessable by any double color type factions or whatever you want to call it. Besides it's something that's part of whole gameplay like in game structures. It makes sense to me that it's neutral like Moon, Viridya etc. They are something that's just something that lives in part of game's world and something that is living without player's influence, so that makes sense that it's neutral. I hope you know what I mean. You probably wonder why then I brought up the fact of Amii Ritual and why it was always frustrating me, well that's because I hated that it's a Frost Card, I always thought that since it's Amii, it should have been Green/Purple. I don't think there was much reason for it to be Frost. I'm pretty sure that if they were going to make whole Amii type cards, I am sure it would become part of it too, instead of Frost. I'm almost sure that the fact that it became Frost was that since they weren't going to make whole Amii type (Green/Purple) and/or even that maybe they actually wanted so badly or had very nice ideas for it, they wanted to make those cards anyways and since they weren't going to make more Green/Purple, they kinda scattered them around and that's why Amii Ritual landed in Frost Type for some reason.

Just to quickly add, I had awesome idea and I thought one of the units of such Amii type, so Life and Death, should have been (for ranged units type) ghosts would throw something like the balls that you could saw happen in Lost Souls when Lost Soul unit died. I don't know how would you explained them, but I think they could been like some sort of magic ranged units. They would look something like this: they would float a bit above the ground like Lich from Heroes of Might And Magic V, they would have black hoods and long dark capes covering they whole torso. From the inside of hood you could see white or red eyes looking something like Spirit Hunters, but more leaving trail like Lost Soul units, maybe they would even have some book with them or something, they wouldn't have physical form so you would only see those eyes and whole body would be shaped, but slightly distorted by something looking like gas forming something looking like actual body, something similiar to Heroes Of Might And Magic V unit called Spectre.

Second idea I had was that the biggest unit and the most powerful you could summon would be Grim Reaper. It's simple and I think the best idea, it would be amazing to see Grim Reaper unit in BattleForge and it would suit as the best Amii unit ever, he is the one takes away life, he is death himself.

With Grim Reaper as a card, I think Amii would even beat my love for Bandit cards and I think they would even go to the first spot of my favourite two colored type cards.

As for the Fire/Frost, I'm actually amazed and blown away. I was wondering for so much time how would Fire/Frost look like? They were complete opposite, but with you explanation I realized that it's obvious that if you would add something very hot to something cold, it would result in steam. I love the idea of steampunk units, , maybe not mechs and if mechs, I think it should have been something with bolts and rachets. The units should have been black and gold and background of each card should been steam colored almost gold like desert wind. I love this idea and it actually doesn't break the whole BattleForge vibe and style. It's not like Heroes Of Might And Magic III were authors wanted to add cyborg city and break whole fantasy world and feel, which of course later on changed into Conflux. I can see steampunk units going around BattleForge lands. I mean Bandit units are very close to steampunk feel and Fire units, so I think the actual fully steampunk units would fit perfectly and makes perfect sense that if you burn water the steam comes out, so even from elements perspective it makes total sense.

Anyways, thank you erakus very much for your response, It's really awesome vision and thoughts you have and I really liked your whole explanation and I'm really glad that you took your time to join my debate and write all this.

thats a very short comment :kappaross: 

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2 minutes ago, N0SKYO said:

thats a very short comment :kappaross: 

No one said that they must be short.
I usually write a lot or more than I should have, but I don't consider it a bad thing.
Besides equal exchange, long comment for long reply. ;)

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2 minutes ago, Wampire said:

No one said that they must be short.
I usually write a lot or more than I should have, but I don't consider it a bad thing.
Besides equal exchange, long comment for long reply. ;)

Just joking around tho.Guess that is a thing. Forums are made of topics like that and thats what they consist of.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, N0SKYO said:

Just joking around tho.Guess that is a thing. Forums are made of topics like that and thats what they consist of.

 

 

I know you were joking, that's why I made an emoticon at the end to visualize my face or emotions.

It's really hard to tell just by text what someone ment or what was his intentions. So I made that, so my comment wouldn't sound like I am angry or something about that. I knew you were joking that's why I wrote my comment that way. Anyways, thank you that you joined the topic. ^_^

Edited by Wampire

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3 hours ago, xs0ulLess said:

I don't think you can blame EA directly for every kind of issue, like the lack of expansions/content.

ANd regarding fire/frost, it's hard to balance that combination into the rest of the color pool as both colors bring their respective spells etc. into the mix. And then there's new 3 color combinations too. Not saying its a bad thing, it's just hard to balance this out despite bringing up a reasonable unit design and models altogether

Actually you can.

It was EA's decision to leave Battleforge with little more than a tiny skeleton crew to keep it going.
If you'll recall, most of the Phenomic staff were moved over to other projects.
This is one of the major reasons why we started seeing units with only small variations like recolours, and why updates became so few and far between.

It was also EA who never advertised the game, meaning it would never have much of a chance to make them enough money to be considered even remotely successful.

Had Battleforge been successful, more money may have been put in to it to bring us more expansions and content faster. But that's not the way it went down, and so we got little more than a tiny skeleton crew that had to try and keep things interesting on their own. The less people working on the game, the longer it takes to get any kind of updates out. Considering updates came at a snails pace and the game was on an IV drip for a long time? Yeah, I don't think they had many people left to work on it.

But this is how publishers work. It's either successful, or it isn't worth anything.

 

Due to the rules EA gave for this project to stay alive, I'm guessing we won't be getting new units, right?

I'd still love for the game to finally get other factions, particularly once the double-colours were finished, seeing some tri-colour factions.

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9 hours ago, Jothah said:

 

The 3+ color combinations sound really cool!

 

Noo, what I meant is, if fire/frost was a new combination, you could have access to 3 colors starting from T3 AND 2-3 combinations, which gives you alot to pick from. For example fire/frost/nature: You'd have access to fre/frost/nature splashes AND fire/nature, fire/frost, frost/nature cards.

I meantioned this because it would broaden the choices alot, which you ofc also have to factor in for balance.

Aside from that, I think many creative minds would be able to produce cool combinations or new colors.

7 hours ago, Tyroki said:

Actually you can.

It was EA's decision to leave Battleforge with little more than a tiny skeleton crew to keep it going.

But this is how publishers work. It's either successful, or it isn't worth anything.

OK. Yeah I remember about team phenomic.

I just don't like people throwing tantrums or blame to soemone without actual reason. Thanks for your 2 cents.
I can't say I'm happy with any decision big publishers do, now or back then. But money dictates the pace.

At least we got greenlights for reborn ...

Edited by xs0ulLess

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As a guy who mostly played themed decks (and mostly failed cause lack of options lol/skill lol) i'd really love to see some more of shadow/nature and at least a couple of fire/frost cards added. A question would be if its easy to just use one of the existing models (resize, recolor etc) and give them "new" abilities. If it aint that hard I'm sure the community can come up with a lot of pretty nice ideas. Might require a lot of balancing and testing to not generate some hillarious OP stuff but i think it would kinda close the circle left open by EA. Sadly the card creating tool isnt working for me and i dont know why tbh O.o (maybe someone can help?) I'd like to throw out as much as possible so it hopefully snowballs and reaches a state where we get an OK from the devs (<3 u guys). If you are  interested i can try looking up some pics and think about which model/role/cost and stuff and start create some (hopefully) balanced cards. I will certainly need help on the numbers though but hey we gotta start somewhere right? We could make some unfinished strategies.. well.. not viable.. but at least push them to a level where ppl building fundecks dont feel dissappointed by their ideas being limited by the amount of cards and them staring at a 5 cards synergy with a total cost of 6 orbs or stuff like that.

 

well blah.

just my 2 cents for now :)

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On 2/23/2018 at 6:59 PM, xs0ulLess said:

Noo, what I meant is, if fire/frost was a new combination, you could have access to 3 colors starting from T3 AND 2-3 combinations, which gives you alot to pick from. For example fire/frost/nature: You'd have access to fre/frost/nature splashes AND fire/nature, fire/frost, frost/nature cards.

I meantioned this because it would broaden the choices alot, which you ofc also have to factor in for balance.

Aside from that, I think many creative minds would be able to produce cool combinations or new colors.

OK. Yeah I remember about team phenomic.

I just don't like people throwing tantrums or blame to soemone without actual reason. Thanks for your 2 cents.
I can't say I'm happy with any decision big publishers do, now or back then. But money dictates the pace.

At least we got greenlights for reborn ...

That's the surprising thing.
EA letting something go like that?

For a 'Triple-A' publisher, that's almost unheard of.
That being said, I can't remember any other examples right now, but I'm sure there's been at least one.

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On 2/23/2018 at 5:59 AM, xs0ulLess said:

Noo, what I meant is, if fire/frost was a new combination, you could have access to 3 colors starting from T3 AND 2-3 combinations, which gives you alot to pick from. For example fire/frost/nature: You'd have access to fre/frost/nature splashes AND fire/nature, fire/frost, frost/nature cards.

I meantioned this because it would broaden the choices alot, which you ofc also have to factor in for balance.

When I first read this I didn't agree, since you can already go shadow/frost/nature and have access to those 3 plus lost souls and Stonekin and you then have to decide whether you want to have a second orb in Shadow to have Harvester for example, or in cold to have Timeless One, etc. Every new colour you add in does add new options, but it also removes other options.

The balance is in number of orbs required to keep powerful units separated, so all you need to do is make sure you can't use a new T3 frost-fire card with Timeless one if that is an overpowered combination.

That said, the only way to do this is by making it require 2 fire orbs which means it can be used with Giant Slayer so it can't be overpowered with any other 2 fire orb or 2 frost orb T3 card either. Every possible combination needs to be considered before a card is added to make sure it isn't broken with anything else it can be played with, which obviously gets trickier at T4.

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On 24.2.2018 at 3:41 PM, Archeon said:

Every possible combination needs to be considered before a card is added to make sure it isn't broken with anything else it can be played with, which obviously gets trickier at T4.

Essentially what I'm saying fam.

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