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The game shouldnt get pay 2 win and everyone shall have the same chances, so you cant buy bfp. Thats fine. But my question is, what are your plans about black market?

What I mean are people that play battleforge (maybe with multiple accounts) to get / earn bfp and sell them or people that played this game and stoped playing it and sell the bfp they got aswell. For example on ebay.

This would lead into a way to be able to buy bfp with real money so that those could gain a significant advantages.

How do you think about this fact, that happens on almost any game with ingame currency and happend for battleforge as specific example in the past, too?

Edited by Phoenix313

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It shouldn't get P2W, but imo they need to introduce some kind of micro transactions, for the durability of the game (incentives to play more / longer).
You should be able to buy boosters / card packs with real money, just not the indivual cards. And just note if micro transactions are in the game, it opens up so much future possibility's for this projects ( for example: more resources to make new cards, maps etc.)

EDIT: Something similar to FIFA Ultimate team packs to clarify the card packs, where you can buy card packs with real money, but the cards itself with the in game currency.

Edited by Mitch

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13 minutes ago, Mitch said:

It shouldn't get P2W, but imo they need to introduce some kind of micro transactions, for the durability of the game (incentives to play more / longer).
....

Micro transactions are not made and are not responsible for a games durability neither as an incentive to play more or to play longer.

They are partly the reason WHY you have to play longer as otherwise people would not spend money on micro transactions, but the actuall reason for longer playtime is increased rarity of specific drops/ amount of currency you get and so on. These are introduced to give a feeling of "I want X" while delaying the satisfaction of "I got/earned X" and as such trying to provoke buying said transaktion, the longer playtimes are a simple side effect and if wanted they could easily introduce them without any kind of micro transactions.

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1 minute ago, Tam Hawkins said:

Micro transactions are not made and are not responsible for a games durability neither as an incentive to play more or to play longer.

They are partly the reason WHY you have to play longer as otherwise people would not spend money on micro transactions, but the actuall reason for longer playtime is increased rarity of specific drops/ amount of currency you get and so on. These are introduced to give a feeling of "I want X" while delaying the satisfaction of "I got/earned X" and as such trying to provoke buying said transaktion, the longer playtimes are a simple side effect and if wanted they could easily introduce them without any kind of micro transactions.

There are always different opinions about this subject, ofcourse.

But I'm trying to make clear that micro transactions opens up alot of possibility's for in the future, like new cards / maps which increases the durability and incentives (because it's new).
It's not like micro transactions make it instantly P2W, there are other ways to introduce micro transactions then the original Battleforge did.
My bad if I didn't make that clear in my first reply, English isn't my main language.

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50 minutes ago, Mitch said:

There are always different opinions about this subject, ofcourse.

But I'm trying to make clear that micro transactions opens up alot of possibility's for in the future, like new cards / maps which increases the durability and incentives (because it's new).
It's not like micro transactions make it instantly P2W, there are other ways to introduce micro transactions then the original Battleforge did.
My bad if I didn't make that clear in my first reply, English isn't my main language.

I'm not against micro transactions for dlc that is more like an expansion for example a map pack or a new campaign is absolutely ok depending on the pricing. If you meant adding actually new content with your first one then I agree with you but it sounded like you wanted random boosterpacks of existing cards via real money.

 

That said, in my experience the only thing that can really prolong a game for even decades is an active modding community as they can easily expand a game into many different directions.... but that is a bit off topic here^^

 

So to get back on topic:

@Phoenix313: I don't know how exactly they would prevent a black market but the only possible way i see for that is banning everyone who is proven to sell or buy cards outside of the game (question is if they can afford to permaban i don't know how many people)

Edited by Tam Hawkins

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3 hours ago, Tam Hawkins said:

I'm not against micro transactions for dlc that is more like an expansion for example a map pack or a new campaign is absolutely ok depending on the pricing. If you meant adding actually new content with your first one then I agree with you but it sounded like you wanted random boosterpacks of existing cards via real money.

 

That said, in my experience the only thing that can really prolong a game for even decades is an active modding community as they can easily expand a game into many different directions.... but that is a bit off topic here^^

 

So to get back on topic:

@Phoenix313: I don't know how exactly they would prevent a black market but the only possible way i see for that is banning everyone who is proven to sell or buy cards outside of the game (question is if they can afford to permaban i don't know how many people)

I don't think the black market will be a big problem. There are currently like 10.000 members on this forum, so I am pretty sure the amount of players who are interested in a black market won't be high enough to create a black market for Skylords reborn.

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1 hour ago, Darkplaces said:

I don't think the black market will be a big problem. There are currently like 10.000 members on this forum, so I am pretty sure the amount of players who are interested in a black market won't be high enough to create a black market for Skylords reborn.

I hope, but from my experience a black market/RMT/cheating will always exist no matter how small or close knitt a community is.

The main Problem for this seems to be that the buyers simply don't understand or care how much something like this harms the game normaly.

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5 hours ago, Phoenix313 said:

This would lead into a way to be able to buy bfp with real money so that those could gain a significant advantages.

 

I think that with the non-profit model, people will be able to get cards relatively quickly. Not to mention, that the game is mostly skill-based, so with a "significant advantage", people still can their asses whipped in PvP, especially considering which type of people would go against the Terms of Service (which I'm sure will forbid such act)...

The significant advantage you are talking about isn't really that significant, considering, that at the start, no one will have BFP to sell, and it will be gained through playing. And when it piles up, because there is nothing to spend it on, so it can be sold, then for a new player, the advantage isn't really serious, because the game is full with maxed-out players.

 

So the great problem isn't really the act of buying, but the act of selling. Because that isn't only against the game rules, but often against the law too. I don't think, that selling BFP will ever worth the time and effort for anyone as a reasonable source of income (like I said before, I don't think there will be a significant demand for buying it), but if countermeasures are necessary, then I think the best way to reduce the problem is to limit the BFP trade (both through private message or auction) by introducing a daily limit based account level.

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I think its an significant advantage when you are on similar skill levels. Also someone that starts playing the game wont play against the maxed out players he will play against players that are on his level, besides the fact that the person who bought bfp with real money has a significant advantage.

5 minutes ago, Gahen said:

I don't think, that selling BFP will ever worth the time and effort for anyone as a reasonable source of income.

Kids and students?

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The community is in fact pretty small, and for a good part of it are fans of the game and will not cheat (at least I hope).

One of the main danger is, even if only 2 or 3 people cheat (by cheating, black market,...) and the devs don't do anything, honest players will be either disgusted of the game or will be tempted to cheat, and at the end it will ruin the entire game.

The devs must take a stand against cheaters, and must act immediately when someone is reported.

I don't have enough experience in this subject to have a discerning analysis, this is just my personal opinion.

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First of all, you probably mean RMT with Black market (Real Money Trading). You mean the same thing, but well, if there's a term for it, why not use it? ;D


Next I'd like to talk about the fact that RMT will always be a problem in any game asociated with it.
The thing is, and this is why it's pretty little concern to us until it happens, aslong as the dev's make the ratio of work/time spent on a level that RMT in Skylords Reborn will be unattractive compared to other games, ppl that go for RMT will not go for this.
Ppl that go for RMT look for profit with little effort, so if they get more profit from other games, they will probably not go for RMT in Skylords reborn.

 

tl;dr?
The only ones that will be able to do smthg against this will be the staff. We've gotta trust em. And as of now, I don't see a reason as to why not to trust em. to make the game fair and unatractive to RMTing ppl.

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Because black market sounds cool ;).

A market where things are traded in a forbidden way, but I can add the real money trading to the tag list ;).

Btw. I doubt that people will do it in a great way to earn much money, I think more of people that played it for some months and sell it afterwards or of kids that try to increase their pocket money.

14 minutes ago, Shotty said:

The only ones that will be able to do smthg against this will be the staff. We've gotta trust em. And as of now, I don't see a reason as to why not to trust em. to make the game fair and unatractive to RMTing ppl.

The thread exists to make them even think about it, because no matter you trust someone or not, if those person even doesnt think about something, the person cant know and do anything against it.

Its like in relationships, where one person just stop saying anything and the other one just doesnt know what the problem is ;).

 

 

Finally to the size of the community argument.

> 10k is considered as a big community, even if most of it are inactive.

I have seen cheater and similar people even on games with communities of just about 100 people and less.

Edited by Phoenix313

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Only 1 person is enough to ruin a game, no matter how big the community is. You both @Phoenix313 and @Shotty are right, devs are the only ones who can really act against a cheater/illegal seller , but they could never notice something is wrong if nobody report it. We all have our responsibility.

Edited by Aegis1020

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58 minutes ago, Shotty said:

First of all, you probably mean RMT with Black market (Real Money Trading). You mean the same thing, but well, if there's a term for it, why not use it? ;D


Next I'd like to talk about the fact that RMT will always be a problem in any game asociated with it.
The thing is, and this is why it's pretty little concern to us until it happens, aslong as the dev's make the ratio of work/time spent on a level that RMT in Skylords Reborn will be unattractive compared to other games, ppl that go for RMT will not go for this.
Ppl that go for RMT look for profit with little effort, so if they get more profit from other games, they will probably not go for RMT in Skylords reborn.

 

tl;dr?
The only ones that will be able to do smthg against this will be the staff. We've gotta trust em. And as of now, I don't see a reason as to why not to trust em. to make the game fair and unatractive to RMTing ppl.

i agree with that.

Also RMT and a Black Market is not avoidable, there are bigger games who fight with it. And it would cost the Developer alot of time to prove something like that. i think they are happy when the game is released and they dont want to work all day long for free to prevent something like that. In the end, it does not interest me much, if a big Cardpool is fairly reachable in some months of play.

 

I think cheating will be rare cause if i remember right you need a bit more knowledge than just the basic Cheat Engine knowledge to create a "god mode", and the player number will be that low that no one that have the knowledge, will be interested in builduing a trainer.

 

So the best way to avoid things like that is to make all achieveable in a reasonable time of play

 

Edit: Cheats cause synchro errors on Multiplayer maps/modes so reporting is not possible if they are not obviously cheat the PVE ranking lists.

 

 

Edited by ImperatorSK

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Just dropping this here: I think that adding micro transactions (or any form of payment) will 'scare' away people, as this game already has a P2W history... I would also consider playing if other players get bonuses just because they spent money... 

(Dont get me wrong, micro transactions or payments for non-gameplay elements are fine, for example league of legends' skins)

Edited by SilenceKiller99

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16 hours ago, Phoenix313 said:

The game shouldnt get pay 2 win and everyone shall have the same chances, so you cant buy bfp. Thats fine. But my question is, what are your plans about black market?

What I mean are people that play battleforge (maybe with multiple accounts) to get / earn bfp and sell them or people that played this game and stoped playing it and sell the bfp they got aswell. For example on ebay.

well at first even if you could buy somehow BFP it would only lead to Pay2Boost and not pay2win. the game doesnt have items that are only avaieble for Payers, even if it would hadthem under EA. it will not have them now.

well with multiaccs and that stuff its still P2B. what im more concernd, is how the game is protected aginst cheating or cheat engine (for example on the EA title Mass effect 3, runs under origin, i used it to get me infinit ingame curancy but you had the option to buy it for real money) 

but multy account will problably not happen because:

1. its an old game  2. its 100% F2P  3. doesnt have a big company behind it  4. and the bfp you will get are huge compared to the time under EA  5. in the same time those multyaccouters can make way more money in newer more popular game like the huge F2P or F4P RPG sector

 

 

but for the BFP in general can may be someon add an option to donate them in a new players pool so they get a bit mor bfp at start 

Edited by Asraiel

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17 hours ago, ImperatorSK said:

Edit: Cheats cause synchro errors on Multiplayer maps/modes so reporting is not possible if they are not obviously cheat the PVE ranking lists.

 

 

Also creating said synchro errors by intention can be some kind of cheating (PvP!). Imagine someone is about to lose a ranked PvP match and crashes intentionally so he wont lose

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1. The original BF was not P2W.

2. The new SR is not going to be P2W.

3. The game however need some sort of support mechanism in terms of keeping servers alive and pay the staff.

4. Microtransactions are cancer.

5. Donations will get you cards you can get in the game, you just need to spend a bit of time on getting them.

Did I miss anything?

Edited by Yakamaru

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1 hour ago, Yakamaru said:

1. The original BF was not P2W.

2. The new SR is not going to be P2W.

3. The game however need some sort of support mechanism in terms of keeping servers alive and pay the staff.

4. Microtransactions are cancer.

5. Donations will get you cards you can get in the game, you just need to spend a bit of time on getting them.

Did I miss anything?

You missed the point where the skylords reborn said that it will be completely free... 

 

19 hours ago, Asraiel said:

but multy account will problably not happen because...

My guess is that it is still gonna happen... at least in the beginning when people try to get their first deck together quickly.

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1 minute ago, SilenceKiller99 said:

You missed the point where the skylords reborn said that it will be completely free...

I didn't miss anything, mate. I know it's going to be F2P.

However, the game does need to be funded somehow, for keeping the servers up and the staff paid. Nothing is free. Except breathing.

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Please enjoy this literally copied text out of the FAQ:

Quote

Will this game cost me money?
Nope! Skylords Reborn will be completely free to play, and you will be able to earn your BFP through daily quests and playtime. You will of course gain more BFP than the original 2 you would receive from the original game.

Where can I buy BFP?
Since the game will be completely free to play, there is no place you can purchase any in-game content with real money.

 

Also, the game will probably be funded by donations, and maybe microtransactions for non-gameplay elements (like skins, colored names, icons, etc...). I follow this project for over a year now and I've got the impression that the team does not want anything gameplay related to be payable, at least before Ardent Peak 'took over' that is.

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12 minutes ago, Yakamaru said:

I didn't miss anything, mate. I know it's going to be F2P.

However, the game does need to be funded somehow, for keeping the servers up and the staff paid. Nothing is free. Except breathing.

@Yakamaru Well as Mentioned the servers are funded with Donations only. for future information visit: 

 

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15 hours ago, Asraiel said:

@Yakamaru Well as Mentioned the servers are funded with Donations only. for future information visit: 

 

I know. That is what I was referring to, mate. Though seeing as it's going to be donation based, you're probably going to get something back in return of donating. Should be limited to cards, in my opinion.

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nope no refunds every thing that doesnt go into server or the game will be donated to charity

if you would get something for a donation it would be kinda the same as a payment. and thats not happening

Edited by Asraiel

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Easy.

You buy BFP off a "black market".

You receive it either by a mail or overpricing a certain card and then having it bought out.

We flag your account and sender's account.

We track both of yours activities.

Sooner or later, pattern forms and we begin to investigate deeper.

Then we understand you're not receiving those BFP through mail/AH for free, rather paying for it.

Boom!

Both accounts gone.

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