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    • InsaneHawk

      Donations are back   01/17/17

      If you want more information, you can go check this topic : http://forum.skylords.eu/index.php?/topic/2790-donations-are-back/
    • MrXLink

      Future of Skylords Reborn and intro to Ardent Peak   02/10/17

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    • MrXLink

      NOTE: Stricter (chat) Rule Enforcement   04/11/17

      Greetings Skylords, Skyladies and Skythings. There has been a lot of commotion going on lately regarding moderation and people calling us out for favouritism and improper judgement. @Kiwi, myself and the rest of the team have had enough of this and we are changing our approach and leniency towards the community drastically, and eliminate this pseudo-favouritism factor. Not that we ever had favourites to begin with, nor in our eyes treated regulars in any way advantageous over others, but we have received several complaints regarding this issue, as well as there have been quite some clashes in chatbox recently. Aside from that, we have decided to act much more strictly about members in the foreseeable future as well.  Considering people have deemed our judgement to be unfair, this will result in us warning the community even for minor infringements, and possibly introducing more temp bans. We feel this is sadly necessary in the current community's state and we're better off having an ordered community in which people see us treat everyone the same way, although in my opinion harshly, and in which members treat staff with respect. As long as the safety and trustworthiness of moderation on the website and discord server is at risk, we will have to make it well-known that we do exert judgement on everyone equally. So from now on, we will be warning people more frequently. This can be for minor insults, misbehaviour, memberating or what we consider as staff disrespect. We're done with the leniency we have once shown here. I'm sad it has to happen this way and of course we will do everything in our power to keep the chatbox a nice, welcoming place. Perhaps this means people will start thinking that we are being sensitive, especially when it comes down to staff disrespect and failure to abide by warnings, but we consider that to be the lesser evil compared to giving members the illusion that we don't consider every member as equal. Equality, understanding, respect and involvement in the community are the cornerstones of community management and moderation, as they also should be within the staff area. So from now on, we are going to monitor this more closely than before. I hope we can treat everyone with understanding and respect here, members and staff alike. We are confident that this approach won't damage the community as much as our currently projected moderation image, valid or not, drags our reliability down. We are all human, and we strive for excellence within community management, moderation and involvement with the community, and aim to execute measures to achieve these goals with respect, passion, and dedication as we did before. We are saddened to have our strictness come to this point. As much as the (chatbox) community has made sure that this became the way it is, we do encourage to take the liberty to speak freely and have a good time here on the forums, as long as said behaviour is in accordance to the forum rules.  Remember, you can find the forum rules over here:  It saddens us to head in this direction, but we feel it will be for the best. We sincerely hope you can all respect this decision, keep the hype up, and have a nice time enjoying the chatbox and its features within a reasonable and orderly manner. Sincerely, and on behalf of @Kiwi and the Skylords Reborn Staff,
      MrXLink, Community Manager
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Draknoron

Economy improvement ideas. Save currency value.

7 posts in this topic

As everyone is aware the in game economy is one of the most important aspects of every F2P game. It effects the progression system, the deck building system, the trading system and most importantly the new player experience. I am sure a great deal of thought has been put into this subject already, but I have not found another place that mentions it so I will place some suggestions here. Each one of these features/suggestions can be implemented separately although some of these make more sense to be implemented together.

Note that I understand that there are many more important features that must be implemented before the long term economy is considered (E.G apt there is an issue with deck locking). Each one of these features/suggestions can be implemented separately. 

1. AVOID INFLATION - I am sure we all experienced times when the value of BFP's went way down which caused the value of certian cards to go up. Conversely EVERYONE saw the value of about 60 cards hit rock bot-em when they ended up in the 3bfp deck. This is card inflation. In short the value of cards determines the value of bfp's and the value of bfp's determines the value of cards. The following ideas help avoid inflation.

A. Sink holes. Every good F2P game needs a way for money or value to leave the system. For this reason I am recommending that the token purchasing system for buying upgrades remains in the game. I simply recommend that bfps can be used to upgrade cards if the player wants. This allows bfp's to disappear from existence without being replaced by cards. This helps to stop the effects of inflation.

B. SMALL starter deck. I have seen this discussed on various threads so i won't talk about this subject a lot, but understand that the value of every card placed in this deck will instantly become 0. This is because no one buys things they already have For this reason I actually support the idea of making stater decks smaller than the original F2P deck. Note that creating multiple starter decks encourages multi accounting to get all the starter cards and helps to devalue those cards as well. For these reasons I recommend that every player be given a 4 element splash deck to expose them to multiple strategies and at the same time equal devalue every factions cards. E.G frost T1, Fire T2, Shadow T3, Nature T4. Note that fire needs to be t1 or T2 so PVE players can learn to siege correctly and are able to siege. Shadow and nature are harder to use anyway.

C. Rotating locked deck. Every almost every good DOTA and TGC has premade un-editable decks for new players to use. Remember the tutorial deck? It could not be altered and was permanently in the locked state. We could preserve the value of EVERY CARD IN THE GAME, by replacing the starting deck system with the rotating one. We could simply make a weekly deck rotation for players with no bfp's to use. This would also allow new players to see what cards they wanted. In addition these decks could come in double rotation. E.G there is a starter nature and stater fire deck on rotation this week and I get to pick the one I want to use for this week. These decks would always contain buildings and T4 to discourage them from shaping the meta in PVP. Edit: Note that all players would pick from the same weekly deck rotation to discourage multi accounting. @Eirias mentioned that the deck locking feature isn't working correctly ATM. This is just a suggestion, but I think this could help protect the value of common/uncommon cards.

D. Pack value. Since BfP's are coming in at a fixed (or pseudo fixed) rate due to the Quest System. Ensure that the pack values reflect the amount of time it takes to earn them. Figure out how long it should take the average player to earn a deck and balance the packs around that. You guys are very smart and I am sure that you can accomplish this task although it is hard. I simply wanted to state this.

2. INCENTIVE. The most important thing about an economy is that people are encouraged to participate in it. The following ideas are the encourage commerce and trading.

A. Quest reroll or Quest choice? Maby generate two daily (or weekly) quest lists from players to pick from. This allows die hard PVPer's to pick a quest rotation that involves more fighting and allows PVE or new players to pick less demoralizing options XD. There is an entire thread that talks about this so I won't mention anything else.  This feature was mentioned in a dev thread i didn't find.

B. Trade tax (this was 15% I think??). Half of us liked this game just for the market lol. Ensure that trade tax is not to high to discourage auction trading. Auction tax serves as a money sink, but it can be avoided by direct trading. This means that it can discourage the use of the action house, which is a required feature for players who want to trade cards at times where most players arn't online. So try to ensure that it is not to high to discourage players from trading.

C. Some form of "infinite income". Some of us are just flat out addicted to games and will keep playing even if our daily's are done. It doesn't have to be a lot, but if there isn't a way to make bfp's outside of daily quests it discourages players from playing the game. This is especially important to new players, who often play for very long times on their first session. Imagine if league of legends or Hearthstone had no way to make money outside of daily quests. This feature is paramount for a game this will probably launch with a small player base and wants to keep players. This is currently purposed as a hourly quest that resets with half rewards. I could see that working as long as its starts with a decent amount.

D. Card upgrades Via BFP. I mentioned this above in a different section, but players who have nearly completed decks will need this feature to get value out of their bfp's. Gold is used for this as a primary as stated on the official thread, but this option would exist for players who are done deck building.

3. GOLD - This currency never made sense. It is only used for card upgrades which seems kind of waist full. Every player ended up with too much of this stuff. Honestly have no idea how to "balance" the gold system possibly allow players to buy tokens with large amounts of it? I have no true suggestions for how to balance gold. 

Edited by Draknoron
Clarity addition in the purpose of rotating decks.

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Ah, don't have a lot of time right now, but there are two or three threads related to the reward system. You should take a look at those. There are a couple other threads that discuss a lot of these ideas. If nobody else links them before I come back, I'll do it then.

 

I can give my opinions on some of these ideas later, but for now let me just touch on the idea of a rotating locked deck. While I agree that this could be a really good thing and might solve some of the issues people have with grinding upgrades, there are a few problems. First, I'm not sure how well the developers are prepared to code that. In beta right now, the tutorial deck is just like any other deck (a good deal of bugs right now are related to that issue).

 

But assuming that will be fixed, the other issue is the metagame. Getting a level 120 deck wasn't easy in the old BF. Maybe it will be now, but I'd imagine there will still be a lot of players who aren't quite "new," but who would still benefit from having a standard, level 120 deck with solid cards. That influences the metagame. Let's say the current rotating deck is a stonekin deck, with defenders, spirit hunters, stormsinger, stone tempest, razorshards, and aggressors. If I know that a larger-than-normal amount of people will be playing this deck, then I will either switch to a deck that has a good matchup against this deck, or I'll add counterpick cards (such as mauler, in this case).

 

Adding two decks helps, but I'm not sure it entirely solves this issue. And if every person gets a random choice of a rotating deck per week, then I can just multiaccount 10 accounts and I'll probably get the deck I want in one of them.


Just giving you a couple ideas of the problems this faces, and it will ultimately come down to the cost vs benefits of this system.

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54 minutes ago, Eirias said:

 

I can give my opinions on some of these ideas later, but for now let me just touch on the idea of a rotating locked deck. While I agree that this could be a really good thing and might solve some of the issues people have with grinding upgrades, there are a few problems. First, I'm not sure how well the developers are prepared to code that. In beta right now, the tutorial deck is just like any other deck (a good deal of bugs right now are related to that issue).

That's very unfortunate given that that feature makes the rotating system possible. 

As for the idea that this system encourages multi accounting, I think that you have a slight misconception of what I am saying. I was suggesting that the locked decks rotate on a fixed system. So for week 1 only deck "Fire dog" and "Blue panther" are available for all players and you get to pick one. Afterwards the old weekly decks are removed when the new ones are available. Think league of legends champion rotation. Even if you multi accounted you would not be given a competitive advantage in this system because you can't trade the decks and can only progress on the account that picked the deck you wanted.

As for the meta game changes, these can be avoided by having the deck only have level one cards. Was the tutorial deck max level? It might have been. Even if the decks are max level simply having T4 and buildings in them makes them a poor choice for pvp. Maybe these decks would heavily influence the game in the early stages, but i can't imagine this to have a significant effect on the meta after a few weeks. Furthermore no deck rotation system just insures that the first deck you give players will always be more likely to be used. E.G first week of battle forge everyone will be using wind weavers or master archers for T1. So smart people will build their decks around it eater way.

Sorry about not finding another economy thread. I found threads talking about the progression system, but the purpose of this thread was about talking about how the reward system and the starter cards influence the value of the in game currency. I just wanted to make a thread about the impact that such features have on the value of BFP's, which is vital to F2P systems.

 

Edited by Draknoron

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Maybe I missed it while reading, but could you explain to me how a rotating locked deck would stop inflation?

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Regarding the rotating decks:

The point of them is to make PvP playable for all people on an equal level. If someone just started after his old account got hacked or something, the rotating decks would allow him to play at a very high level without needing cards or upgrades. If it's not a faction he's comfortable with, or it doesn't have that one card he crutches on (mortar, cough cough), then that's his incentive to make a real deck. For the rotating deck to have that, it needs to be good cards (I'd imagine top PvP players would vote on the cards in each deck) and they need to be U3. I also agree that they should be the same for every player (to prevent multiaccounting).

So either the rotating decks are useful and affect the metagame a lot, or they're not useful--in which case, why do it in the first place?

I also don't see how the rotating decks will impact the economy at all--except possibly to reduce the price of the cards that sometimes appear in the rotating deck. At the very least, those cards will be at a reduced price WHILE the decks are on rotation.

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2 hours ago, SilenceKiller99 said:

Maybe I missed it while reading, but could you explain to me how a rotating locked deck would stop inflation?

Sorry I didn't explain myself well i guess. It stops card inflation in certain cases. E.G any card that is in EVERYONE'S deck becomes instantly worthless. In the old decks Wind weavers, Wearebeast.. ect, all had no commercial value because they were in the starting deck. If there is no starting deck then there is no devalue. It doesn't stop inflation for all cards but it saves at least 20 cards from being worthless. 

Edited by Draknoron
Clarity

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37 minutes ago, Eirias said:

Regarding the rotating decks:

The point of them is to make PvP playable for all people on an equal level. If someone just started after his old account got hacked or something, the rotating decks would allow him to play at a very high level without needing cards or upgrades. If it's not a faction he's comfortable with, or it doesn't have that one card he crutches on (mortar, cough cough), then that's his incentive to make a real deck. For the rotating deck to have that, it needs to be good cards (I'd imagine top PvP players would vote on the cards in each deck) and they need to be U3. I also agree that they should be the same for every player (to prevent multiaccounting).

So either the rotating decks are useful and affect the metagame a lot, or they're not useful--in which case, why do it in the first place?

I also don't see how the rotating decks will impact the economy at all--except possibly to reduce the price of the cards that sometimes appear in the rotating deck. At the very least, those cards will be at a reduced price WHILE the decks are on rotation.

First of all I guess i wasn't clear in my post but this would replace starter cards.

The purpose of the rotating deck system would be to give players cards that they can use to play PVE or PVP until they decide what kind of deck they actually want to build. Not to make PvP playable for all people on an equal level (though if that's where the community wants to go that's fine to.)The decks would not be particularly good at eater one think jack of all trades deck, or 10 of all trades deck would be more accurate. Since the deck always contains non optimal components a player who wants to use the cards that they like will be forced to create their own deck. They are not meant to be high tier or competitive anymore than the starter cards are meant to be. Note that if the point of a starter deck is to be competitive then there is no incentive to actually play the game at all as players have what they need already. There is no progression if the decks are good.

They also come with the added bonus of allowing players to be exposed to different cards that they will later want in their own deck. I don't see why they need to be U3 since the entire point is to use the decks to try out new cards that they will collect later. For example if i'm playing a demo fire deck and I use a juggernaut for the first time, i'm going to be like, OMG I MUST HAVE A JUGGERNAUGHT. Even if I don't need one that week I wont see it again in the rotation for a month or so and will eventually want it in my own deck.

Discourages multi accounting. No one will make more accounts to get more copies of X card. 

Also a rotating deck structure instead of a starting cards structure preserves the values of all the cards that would normally be in the starter deck. Think of all the 1bfp cards that were on the auction house that never got purchased. I remember 27 pages for wind weavers alone. 

Finaly, the system is proven to work in many games. LoL, Smite, Dirty Bomb are just a few F2P titles that use a system like this to allow players to experiment with different strategies untill they decide what is best for them. 

 

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