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THIS IS NOT RP (role play)

RP is here 

http://forum.bfreborn.com/index.php?/topic/1838-the-elemental-clash-the-battleforge-rp/#comment-38184

A while ago, there was a huge discussion - lore based. We battled around on what Elemental faction is the first one, the strongest one, the most ambitious one and the best one :)

And just now, me and @youto000 came upon that discussion again, so here we are, having a thread about this, and this only. Post all your lore based and even made up facts here, and let's watch the Elements fight over their position.

-------

Seriously though, check out the RP, it's amazing :)

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thank you @anonyme0273

ill start by saying shadow is the strongest because it is the oldest and so therefor has the most power, and do you know what i like more than power knowledge and with age comes knowledge

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----

To start with my own opinion - I honestly believe Shadow is the one to rule them all, as Fire, Frost and Nature came from the Void, where Shadow strives

For more info with which you can respond to this thread, check out http://battleforge.wikia.com/wiki/The_Elemental_Orbs - overall base

http://battleforge.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow - Shadow

http://battleforge.wikia.com/wiki/Fire - Fire

http://battleforge.wikia.com/wiki/Frost - Frost

http://battleforge.wikia.com/wiki/Nature - Nature

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Nature wants "harmony". If they achieved that, they would be powerful. Shadow is powerful even without other elements, existing on the non-existang matter of others. If others cease to exist, then Shadow will be the most powerfull one. (also, the only one). I think Shadow doesn't need others, they came from Shadow, they can go back to the Shadow

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25 minutes ago, anonyme0273 said:

If others cease to exist, then Shadow will be the most powerfull one. (also, the only one).

Every nation would be the strongest if all other nations cease to exist xD lol

And what you really try to say is: if others cease to exist, than shadow will be the most powerfull one. But because others still exist shadow is not the most powerfull xD

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1 hour ago, Valaraukar said:

No, if Fire nature and frost cease to exist then shadow will be more powerful than nature will be if shadow frost and fire cease to exist.

Agreed. Shadow would live of their non-existence forewer, and a reign of darkness would fall upon the puny people of Nyn... <3 :shadoworb: 

MWUAHAHAHA!

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Shadow is afraid to be defeated by others. As pointed out maybe it's the oldest but others, such as nature, came to exist by taking the spot where there was only void. Even when the the shadow fell on the world of Nyn (Twilight) nature survived.

 

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Undoubtedly, Fire has the biggest offensive potential. However, Fire lacks the finesse and direction to make efficient use of their sheer amount of power. They are incredibly strong, but with a few wrong steps they can fall apart. Also, Fire is not the brightest colour in general and as seen in the campaign they can be fooled and manipulated.

Frost on the other side is the polar opposite. I see them as nearly unconquerable with fortifications an defenses so great that no assault will ever bring them down. They can outlast every enemy in combat but I don't see them claiming new terretory. I think most skirmishes with Frost would end in a stalemate in one way or another. Also, I think a too big Frost empire would collapse under its own weight eventually, comparable to the Roman Empire.

Nature is the youngest element and for that alone I think nature has a handicap. The numbers of nature-forces might be low but they make more use and extend their lives if necessary. I see them being great at winning individual skirmishes where they can take their environment to their advantage to ensure the enemy makes ill use of their troops while the nature forces have many boons that give them an edge. However, I see that advantage becoming slim the more the scale of war increases.

The advantage of nature is similar to frost as nature draws out fights and excels in keeping their units alive, but a strong preemptive strike would be a catastrophic disaster for nature and result in devastating losses which would probably be unrecoverable. In an all-out war I just don't see how the smaller nature forces would defend against overwhelming numbers.

That leaves only Shadow. I think Shadow has similar weaknesses to nature as it cannot stand direct assaults that well either and when being overwhelmed it would be crippling. But you cannot really kill-off shadow as easy as other factions. Darkness is like the void that fills out the lack of presence of any other element. And unlike other factions, Shadow can profit from losses in combat, as there are many ways to make use of solderis after death just as much as during their (un)lifetime.

But most of all, the key to victory for Shadow is at manipulating. Corrupting and disrupting other forces, lowering effectiveness of enemy forces. I could see the forces of Shadow orchestrating war between the other elements while Shadow multiplys in strength due to all the death being caused. And once a critical mass is reached, it is time to strike.

But honsetly, I never saw Shadow as an evil faction and don't think world domination is their goal. Most of the universe is covered in darkness, why bother for just a little bit more? I also don't see a coherent shadow force, but rather individuals that might unite to smaller forces. I guess, ultimately they lack the ambition of the living that would really cause pursuit of world domination.

Also, the lore clearly describes Shadow as bing the oldest element.

So, if you think about it, Fire and Frost would be nearly unstoppable when uniting. The burning passion and motivation of fire, along their unmatched power in combat. And the cunning, manipulative support of Shadow to ensure that enemies are ill prepared for the storm of fire that is to come. Moreover, shadow would provide a strong intellectual leader and ensures that they are used with maximum efficency.

Go Bandits, go :kappa:

 

Edited by Mental Omega

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then than means that fire is stronger but fire cant control itself so it is unlikely for it to burn all of the corpses so shadow would still be there in the "shadows"

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4 hours ago, Mental Omega said:

So, if you think about it, Fire and Frost would be nearly unstoppable when uniting. The burning passion and motivation of fire, along their unmatched power in combat. And the cunning, manipulative support of Shadow to ensure that enemies are ill prepared for the storm of fire that is to come. Moreover, shadow would provide a strong intellectual leader and ensures that they are used with maximum efficency.

Go Bandits, go :kappa:

I don't know what happened with frost and shadow in your story xD

But its true, fire is the strongest offensive, but it lacks defense/support. What better nation to support than nature? Keeping the high damage fire units alive and even when they make a mistake you can support them even more!

 Fire nature to the top!

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55 minutes ago, SilenceKiller99 said:

I don't know what happened with frost and shadow in your story xD

But its true, fire is the strongest offensive, but it lacks defense/support. What better nation to support than nature? Keeping the high damage fire units alive and even when they make a mistake you can support them even more!

 Fire nature to the top!

so the twilight are the strongest, what about the lost souls they can defend themselves then come back why are they not on top?

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7 minutes ago, SilenceKiller99 said:

Because the coming back part is only temporary xD

Also, I never said twilight, I only said fire nature...

fire nature is twilight but in the shadow lore whenever the corpse dies it comes back so it is never ending

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8 hours ago, SilenceKiller99 said:

I don't know what happened with frost and shadow in your story xD

But its true, fire is the strongest offensive, but it lacks defense/support. What better nation to support than nature? Keeping the high damage fire units alive and even when they make a mistake you can support them even more!

 Fire nature to the top!

+1

:)

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40 minutes ago, youto000 said:

what do you mean by +1? +1 to what?

He meant that he agreed to the opinion I shared. So he will probably feel the same about this topic, so he also thinks that fire nature is the strongest.

12 hours ago, youto000 said:

fire nature is twilight

This is a misunderstanding. The fire-nature faction is called twilight, but the strongest cards in the faction are the just fire, or just nature cards. The twilight cards are okey-ish for PvE but not really strong in PvP (for a few exceptions, like deathglider/vileblood)

Edited by SilenceKiller99

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Guyz itz simplez. Shadow based on the lore, is the oldest one and it's a "tainted sin". As @SilenceKiller99 stated, shadow can't survive without the use of others while nature can. Now lets point out that fire isnt the strongest because it lacks defense 100%. Frost, while the lore says otherwise, has a lot of defence and offence (Home Soil, Avatar Of Frost, etc...) so it can be the best. Nature is also balanced, it lacks in both but it also has both equally. Shadow is also balanced, with higher values than Nature requiring sacrifice. So lets start. Fire isn't the best element because its countered very easily by Frost, which was obviously designed to counter its XL destroyers by having XL counters in the second Era. Now the only ones left are Nature, Frost and Shadow. Nature and Frost now. Frost is an Element which doesnt lack in any aspect. Nature, is also balanced, but with lacks. Nature however mostly controls the situation (Parasite Swarm, Heals). It is able to counter almost every situation, controling the enemy without having many strong creatures itself. If the enemy swarms you with S units you Hurricane. If they are alot but medium you (Strangling) root(s) them and use windweavers. Even larger beasts can be bested with spirit hunters, who while die quickly their poison takes down everything. Also if the enemy uses S,M or L it can control it with Parasite swarm. Btw some people might think that Parasites suck because they cost 150 Power to control something; Skyfire Drake cost less right? No because you must think of this like this. When you take control of something: 1st your enemy loses control of it, so its like it died for the enemy and, 2nd you take it for you, so its like you spawned it. So lets have an example. Since I mentioned the cost of Upgrade 3 Parasites the enemy will also have Up 3. Skyfire Drakes cost 100 to spawn. If you control them its 100+100=200 advantage minus the 150 parasite cost =50 power advantage. so with that theory every unit of 70 power and over is worth controlling. "70? Isnt that 140?" you might think. But the fact that you now have 1 more creature in advantage can cover for that 10 power. At 75 you actually just take the unit the advantage is clear. "So we can probably say nature f**ks them all, so it's the best". Wait right there! Nature is that counter for all but 1; Shadow. At tier 2 nature has no possible counter for XL creatures. So if a harvester goes over the corspes of its alies it can reuse them. A massive attack from the harvester that can't be stopped from nature can be devastating. "So wut bruh, im clever I'll go tier 3 and destroy Shadow". Shadow was 3rd Era too (Gazer). And its not gonna be easy to go Era 3 while fighting Shadow. "Can't the other elements stop Shadow?". Well Fire can't, because shadow has a good defensive as well. Frost then? Well maybe lets take a look at it. Well even though the counterpart of shadow is nature the counter to shadow might have been frost. Tier 2 XL counters for harvester. But shadow has crowd control for those units (Nasty, Motivate, etc...). I would say that while their capabilties of categorial spell/creatures, if you understand what I mean, are equal, but Frost has alot of counters for larger units, while shadow can play with all of them. Also because this can be a matter of debate, I will say that Frost might be able to compete with Shadow and defeat it. But shadow is the only element which has an aspect that no other element has influence on; Corpses. Shadow can control both friendly and hostile corpses. So lets say shadow uses motivate to boost friendly units to kill more enemies and then it can effectively reuse those unit's corpses as well as the hostile. So its the best because it might be equal with frost in power but has an uninfluenced by other elements aspect. So my point now is: IF SHADOW IS NOT THE BEST, THEN NONE IS BECAUSE THEY CAN BE COUNTERED. However before you rage at me this is all theory. Shadow's true potentional can only come out at the hands of a proffesional player. So in conclusion at proffesional levels Shadow is the best, but at average levels Frost is the best (Because nature is also hard to use).

 

The lore sided winner is also Shadow because, no matter how you put it, shadow, no matter how small, exists in all. Everyone and everything has a little evil in them, no matter how little. So, even if exterminated, Shadow will grow slowly inside others through their evil parts and come back. So unless all are exterminated Shadow won't be. But for them to be exterminated someone must exterminate them, which leaves us at shadow. So sooner or later, Shadow will conquer everything.

 

Edit: @SilenceKiller99 said:

I think shadow is the weakest, because they need others to survive (they need to suck souls out of people). Nature, instead, does not need that.

Well thats EXACTLY WHY SHADOW IS THE BEST. How can you fight something that sucks your soul out of you.

Edited by BionicReaper

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9 minutes ago, BionicReaper said:

 

The lore sided winner is also Shadow because, no matter how you put it, shadow, no matter how small, exists in all. Everyone and everything has a little evil in them, no matter how little. So even if exterminated Shadow will grow slowly inside others through their evil parts and come back. So unless all are exterminated Shadow won't be. But for them to be exterminated someone must exterminate them, which leaves us at shadow. So sooner or later, Shadow will conquer everything.

This, I like... as well as the rest of the wall of text you wrote :D but this is really a good summary. Shadow conquers. :shadoworb: Shadow can't be destroyed. :shadoworb: Shadow will prevail, as long as there is anything

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2 minutes ago, anonyme0273 said:

This, I like... as well as the rest of the wall of text you wrote :D but this is really a good summary. Shadow conquers. :shadoworb: Shadow can't be destroyed. :shadoworb: Shadow will prevail, as long as there is anything

Lol yeah. Since everything has a little evil. Shadow can come out of anything :P. If there is anything shadow will Come Back and conquer. The only way to defeat shadow is to create THE ULTIMATE VOID upon the universe. Lol good luck with that :kappaross:

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Just now, BionicReaper said:

Lol yeah. Since everything has a little evil. Shadow can come out of anything :P. If there is anything shadow will Come Back and conquer. The only way to defeat shadow is to create THE ULTIMATE VOID upon the universe. Lol good luck with that :kappaross:

And the void is the creator of Shadow, thus creating an infinite cycle of a universe starting and ending with Shadow

 

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3 minutes ago, anonyme0273 said:

And the void is the creator of Shadow, thus creating an infinite cycle of a universe starting and ending with Shadow

 

Fuck yeah O_O. I didn't think of that. Shadow is fucking ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED ITS UNSTOPABLE xD

Edit: I knew Time Vortex had 3 tentacles for some reason.... he-he-he.... Illuminati

Edited by BionicReaper

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21 minutes ago, BionicReaper said:

Lol yeah. Since everything has a little evil. Shadow can come out of anything :P

If this is true, that even the brightest creatures (like swampdrake, dryad and energy parasite) have somethign evil in them. Than even the most darkest things (like harvester, darkelfs and ashbones) have something good in them.

Nature will use this to conquer the world!

 

Shadow is the oldest element, while Nature the youngest. If shadow was better than nature, why would nature even got the chance to excist? And the nature empire is growing! Its taking over the dark places from the Shadow empire!

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