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Loptous

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2 hours ago, Loptous said:

latest?cb=20101015155352latest?cb=20101015155356

AbilityIcon AutoCast Twisted Wake

Every 3 seconds, unit hurls a wake of mana that deals 520 damage to enemies in a 10m radius around its target, up to 780 in total. Knocks back small units.
 

AbilityIcon Activatable Twilight Infection

Power: 50
Infects an own ground unit with the Twilight Curse: the target will be endowed with the gift of Transformation. During the next 40 seconds the unit can transform at will into any other twilight creature in the current deck whose orb requirements are met. Reusable every 20 seconds.
 

AbilityIcon Activatable Gifted Gifted Impairment

Affinity: Gifted
Power: 100
Activate to release a debilitating substance into the surrounding atmosphere that blocks all normal ranged attacks from hostile units within a 20m radius around the caster. Lasts for 15 seconds. Reusable every 30 seconds.
 

AbilityIcon Activatable Blessed Blessed Impairment

Affinity: Blessed
Power: 100
Activate to release a debilitating substance into the surrounding atmosphere that blocks all melee attacks from hostile units within a 20m radius around the caster. Lasts for 15 seconds. Reusable every 30 seconds.
 
Couldn't find any upgrades anywhere.

A very good card actually. While not as powerful as other options, I think it offers a lot of value that is first overseen.

First, this card is meant to be played with a Twilight T4 and it complements it perfectly. I haven't played a lot of Fire/Nature in rPvE but when I did, Skycatcher was always in it.

It deals siege damage (even if not stated on the card) which is perfect for sniping spawns. And while your Abomination is wrecking havoc on the ground and blocks all melee attacks, the Skycatcher will block all ranged attacks. And really, it would be foolish not to play Abomination in a Twilight Deck.

But if the enemy somehow can still attack, you should know that Skycatcher is affected by Twilight Pestilence which gives it a 50% damage reduction from enemy fire. Pestilence is a another criminally overlooked card. Pestilence + Regrowth is all you need to basically keep your army alive forever (works only on Twilight units).

Moreover, if you don't play Breeding Grounds you can turn all your T3 units into Twilight T4 units for -15% cost. It's not a lot but it helps to lower the amount of bound energy, and that for free.

So, yeah if you go for a FFFN or NNNF deck, Skycatcher is not needed but if you go for the classic FFNN style you can do amazing stuff with it.

You can build a great T4 just by Abomination and Skycatcher as units with some spells to support them (Regrowth, Twilight Pestilence and if you want, Cluster Explosion). That's normally enough to rock T4.

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Damn it. I read all those good tips, tricks and tactics and just think: Gotta try that out... but access to the forge is still far away :S But well, whatever. I just have to remind a lot stuff, gotta read this whole topic again when im back in the forge, all 39 pages of it :D

To the card, i was a big fan of this card, 250 power costs and 2 neutral orbs was absolutely fine for me :)  But i may used it wrong...

So much to do when im back in the forge... so much to do... :hype: 

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36 minutes ago, Riviute said:

Damn it. I read all those good tips, tricks and tactics and just think: Gotta try that out... but access to the forge is still far away :S But well, whatever. I just have to remind a lot stuff, gotta read this whole topic again when im back in the forge, all 39 pages of it :D

To the card, i was a big fan of this card, 250 power costs and 2 neutral orbs was absolutely fine for me :)  But i may used it wrong...

So much to do when im back in the forge... so much to do... :hype: 

Might be a good idea, to just write down the most important things in a word document within the next weeks? Then you got them ready when you get access. This topic will definetly not get any smaller and reading through the currently 39 side is already quite time consuming, especially when you want to remember some parts of it.

To Skycatcher:

Never had it due to its rather high costs. Also i don't think it would fit my playstyle very well. You can definetly get away with Abominations + Cluster Explosion, Earthshaker, Inferno, Thunderstorm + SoW + Twilight Pestilence. Although it can probably not be considered a "pure" Twilight deck anymore by relying mostly on spells that are not Twilight, it surely is faster in most cases. Still a pretty good and definetly underrated card. I was actually wondering why it found so little play as most people do rely mostly on units and do not share a spellheavy playstyle. The ability is very usefull for fights that do not result in instant death for bases.

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3 hours ago, Treim said:

Might be a good idea, to just write down the most important things in a word document within the next weeks? Then you got them ready when you get access. This topic will definetly not get any smaller and reading through the currently 39 side is already quite time consuming, especially when you want to remember some parts of it.

To Skycatcher:

Never had it due to its rather high costs. Also i don't think it would fit my playstyle very well. You can definetly get away with Abominations + Cluster Explosion, Earthshaker, Inferno, Thunderstorm + SoW + Twilight Pestilence. Although it can probably not be considered a "pure" Twilight deck anymore by relying mostly on spells that are not Twilight, it surely is faster in most cases. Still a pretty good and definetly underrated card. I was actually wondering why it found so little play as most people do rely mostly on units and do not share a spellheavy playstyle. The ability is very usefull for fights that do not result in instant death for bases.

It is an interesting thought to just make a couple of Abomination to carry ground presence. But if I'd be going that route, I'd honestly be tempted to swap it alltogether with a Bloodhorn and let Fire/Shadow handle the spellheavy nuking playstyle. Frenetic Assault/Amok or Infect accompany damage spells sooo nicely.

The times I played Twilight, I just made it more for the looks and the feeling of commanding this beautifully abhorrent force of nature :) (or wherever they come from).

I always got the impression that I am missing the possibility to deal critical damage for that near-instant void energy return (thanks, Sow). Having less units probably really helps in that regard. Still, playing Twilight always felt like a slower march forward that is more suited for a macro style of play and seemingly this is what most people are looking for. Which always made me wonder why not more people went for a pure Twilight deck, but I suppose that is LSS spam for you.

That being said, I tend to prefer offering units in order to summon fresh ones rather than healing units up. So my favourism for a more responsive playstyle shouldn't come at a surprise :P.

 

This actually makes me wonder, can any other combination really go for that strong spell-heavy build?

Spamming Regrowth doesn't count :P

Edit: Once BFR is up again, I would be for making LSS a pure Lost-Soul unit and just let Lost Dragon be the splashable unit instead. I think it would influence the late-game variety very positively.

Edited by Mental Omega
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11 hours ago, Mental Omega said:

It is an interesting thought to just make a couple of Abomination to carry ground presence. But if I'd be going that route, I'd honestly be tempted to swap it alltogether with a Bloodhorn and let Fire/Shadow handle the spellheavy nuking playstyle. Frenetic Assault/Amok or Infect accompany damage spells sooo nicely.

The times I played Twilight, I just made it more for the looks and the feeling of commanding this beautifully abhorrent force of nature :) (or wherever they come from).

I always got the impression that I am missing the possibility to deal critical damage for that near-instant void energy return (thanks, Sow). Having less units probably really helps in that regard. Still, playing Twilight always felt like a slower march forward that is more suited for a macro style of play and seemingly this is what most people are looking for. Which always made me wonder why not more people went for a pure Twilight deck, but I suppose that is LSS spam for you.

That being said, I tend to prefer offering units in order to summon fresh ones rather than healing units up. So my favourism for a more responsive playstyle shouldn't come at a surprise :P.

 

This actually makes me wonder, can any other combination really go for that strong spell-heavy build?

Spamming Regrowth doesn't count :P

Edit: Once BFR is up again, I would be for making LSS a pure Lost-Soul unit and just let Lost Dragon be the splashable unit instead. I think it would influence the late-game variety very positively.

You are correct when saying that Bandit is definetly the very best faction to play spellheavy as both have great offensive spells. Fire Nature works still very well though, thats also because the Abomination Ability is almost like a damage spell itself :) and therefor works rather good in this deck.

Actually you can also play Lost Souls this way. Ice Tornado, Frost Shard(is it called like that?), Frenetic Assault, Infect, Etheral Storm, Lost Evocation sum up to quite a little bit of damage. It is weaker than Fire splashes but still quite reasonable to use.

Actually a t3 pyro deck is also mostly a spellheavy deck. While Ashbone Pyros do some damage without Frenetic Assault, Infect, Thunderstorm/Soulshatter, Netherwarp, Oink and heals there is no way to make this deck work. Basically any deck with a reasonable amount of okayish damage spells can be played that way.

I dont think that any pure nature/shadow or frost deck has a decent way to make this work tho. Fire should work tho. Shadow Nature is dependent on the enemy. Against Bandits you might get away with it, anything else will most likely give it a really hard time as you dont have any t4 spells. Frenetic Assault is great to compensate some of the weaknesses but i do not think that it is enough to completely cover it up. It is definetly slow. A 3x Shadow, 1x Nature deck with Death Rays as the key card will definetly have it easier.

Lets not talk about Stonekin. I don't think there is any way to make this deck even remotely fast, no matter what you do with it :P.

 

Edited by Treim
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240?cb=20090410161727

Abilities:

AbilityIcon Toggled Frozen Wrath

Enable to become immobile and gain Whirlwind.
 

AbilityIcon AutoCast Whirlwind

Twice per second unit unleashes a hail of icy shards that deal 34 damage to enemies in a 5m radius around its target, up to 52 in total. Does extra damage against frozen targets.
 
Upgrades:
Tempest I Whirlwind* +2 damage per target, 3 in total
Tempest II Whirlwind** +4 damage per target, 5 in total
Tempest III Whirlwind*** +10 damage per target, 15 in total
I really don't see the reason to take this card over Stone Tempest, just on the fact it doesn't even knock back units from what I'm reading. Probably really great for beginners who need some sort of defense on PVE, but when I started, I didn't even touch this card.

 

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Well just a L-Unit in t4 - nothings really great about it.

Although it can be used in a low cost rPVE deck there is plenty of better options with whatever splash you use. It is quite fun using a lot of them though while Rifle Cultists are using their Dark Grenade for quite good damage. With the deck mentioned above Lost Souls is basically an instant loss; Twilight, Bandit and Stonekin is manageable tho. Obviously the problem for this deck is that it is very vulnerable for burst damage and knockbacks resulting in quite significant weaknesses that can only partly be covered by intelligent useage of Dark Grenade and cc.

Therefor generally just not worth using.

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240px-Blessed_Hammerfall-0.jpg240px-Gifted_Hammerfall-0.jpg

Abilities:

AbilityIcon AutoCast Ethereal Bomb

Every 3 seconds, artillery launches an ether bomb that deals 192 damage to enemies in a 15m radius, up to 288 in total. Has a long range of 50m and requires a minimum distance to the target of at least 10m. Knocks back small and medium units. Affects ground targets only.
 

AbilityIcon Passive Gifted Breeze of Life

Affinity: Gifted
Friendly units within a 20m radius will be healed for up to 250 in total per second. There is an initial healing capability of 1500 (max) that may exhaust but will restore over time. Cannot be disabled by spellblocking abilities.

 

AbilityIcon Passive Blessed Breeze of Strength

Affinity: Blessed
Friendly units within a 20m radius will receive an Ice Shield that absorbs up to 800 damage and last for another 15 seconds upon leaving area around Hammerfall. There is an initial capability to install up to 3 Ice Shields that may exhaust but will restore over time. Cannot be disabled by spellblocking abilities.

 

AbilityIcon Passive Adamant Alloy

The building takes 15% less damage.
 
Upgrades:

Hammerfall IEthereal Bomb+12 damage per target, 18 in total

Hammerfall IIEthereal Bomb+12damage per target, 18 in total

Hammerfall IIIEthereal Bomb+18 damage per target, 27 in total

   
     
     

I love pretty much any stonekin building just because of their cool effects. Also the name reminds me of Hammerfell from the Elder Scrolls.
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Long range is nice, but the damage is pretty damn low. Especially if you compare it to necroblaster:

 

Hammerfall: 150 power - 1600/2800

Necroblaster: 100 power - 3680/2360

Stronghold: 150 power - 2155/3600

Twilight Bombard: 100 power - 2100/2045 (has a super long range of 60 meters)

 

Hammerfall is easily the weakest of the T3 towers, and costs the most power. The healing well / frost shield ability is kinda situational, doesn't seem as useful. Necroblaster is easily the strongest tower out of the four of them, and requires only 1 shadow orb, thus fitting in a lot of decks.

 

Pros:

- Very good looking, I really love the way Hammerfall looks, both the model as well as the gfx.

- Ability is quite useful situationally.

- Long range (long range is quite unaccurate against moving targets though).

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4 minutes ago, Chimerae said:

Long range is nice, but the damage is pretty damn low. Especially if you compare it to necroblaster:

 

Hammerfall: 150 power - 1600/2800

Necroblaster: 100 power - 3680/2360

Stronghold: 150 power - 2155/3600

Twilight Bombard: 100 power - 2100/2045 (has a super long range of 60 meters)

 

Hammerfall is easily the weakest of the T3 towers, and costs the most power. The healing well / frost shield ability is kinda situational, doesn't seem as useful. Necroblaster is easily the strongest tower out of the four of them, and requires only 1 shadow orb, thus fitting in a lot of decks.

 

Pros:

- Very good looking, I really love the way Hammerfall looks, both the model as well as the gfx.

- Ability is quite useful situationally.

- Long range (long range is quite unaccurate against moving targets though).

Can somebody with access to the game please recheck if the card description Stronghold really is correct? Because when calculated the stats of Stronghold look far too insane to be true.

When using the usual damage forumla ((52+75)/2/3*8*20 for the small cannons and (180+275)/2/4*20 for the mortar) you get about 4500 ATK and 6400 at U3. I've never played Frost so I can't know if Stronghold really is that strong, but if it is only remotely as powerful as it should be (remember that ranged attacks on cards tend to wrong more often than not) it vastly outperforms Necroblaster, being the clear no.1 defensive card at T3

That being said, let's focus on Hammerfell. It's clear that this card is on the bad end of T3 towers when we compare them by a pure stat by stat basis. But if you have the intention of turtle yourself with some towers, Stronghold is your to-go card anyway.

I see Hammerfell primarily as a high-HP creature support structure with a built in artillery cannon and I think the heal from this building is darn nice. Along with some Stone Warriors I think you got a really reasonable defensive force that does not bind energy to one specific location. I think it should be more seen as a force-multiplier than a defensive tower.

Also, what many people don't realize is that the 15% damage armor of Stonekin units improves healing effectiveness. Why that? Imagine you got a Stonekin unit with 1000 HP, because of the 15% damage reduction this unit has an effective health pool of 1150 health. However, against effects that affect HP directly, this unit still has only 1000 HP. And example for this would be the purple Bandit Gunner, but the same applies to heals. So, if you got something which heals this unit by 1000, you effectively restore the unit's health to 1150.

So, not only do you have to calculate in for the unit Hammerfell is healing, but also Hammerfell itself which actually got about 3300 HP of health.

I've seen some friends doing good work with this card, the artillery really helps softening up the enemy before they arrive your units.

I also think a big factor that was in favour of this card was simply that it was a common. Mind you, Stronghold is ultra-rare, same with Mindweaver and as Stonekin you simply don't have anything else.

The card might not have shiny stats as a Necroblaster, which really is a great card on it's own but I think it is really well designed from a Stonekin perspective, both visually and in terms of gameplay. And honestly, I think it is a great common card that allows for pve strategies where you first defend and then attack with what you just defended with (probably fully healed as well).

It just demands more work than other towers.

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2 hours ago, Mental Omega said:

When using the usual damage forumla ((52+75)/2/3*8*20 for the small cannons and (180+275)/2/4*20 for the mortar) you get about 4500 ATK and 6400 at U3. I've never played Frost so I can't know if Stronghold really is that strong, but if it is only remotely as powerful as it should be (remember that ranged attacks on cards tend to wrong more often than not) it vastly outperforms Necroblaster, being the clear no.1 defensive card at T3.

I'm quite sure Stronghold isn't that powerful. I've used it a couple of times, but the damage was mediocre at best if my memory serves me right. As an extra to this: for the big cannon to shoot, it first has to aim at the target, which can also take a second or two. The attack animation doesn't help in that regard.

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@Mental Omega

U0:

When 1 cannon can attack damage is ~1264/20.

When 3 cannons can attack damage is ~ 1992/20.

When 5 cannones can attack damage is ~ 2720/20.

When all 8 cannons can attack damage is 3812~/20.

The little cannons accurately each deal 364/20 which comes down accurately to 52 damage every 3 seconds. The target which got focussed by the big cannon had 900 extra damage which also perfectly fits the 180 damage every 4 seconds. I avoided the AOE damage by splitting the bloodhorns far enough.

U3:

1 cannon: 1718/20

3 cannons: 2754/20

5 cannons: 3790/20

8 cannons: 5344/20

Little cannons: 518/20 --> 74/3

Big cannon 1718-518=1200/20 --> 240

Same setups as for U0.

At least the values for single target damage seems to be correct.

Not exactly sure how they got to the values for U0 and U3.

 

 

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240?cb=20090410160849

Abilities:

AbilityIcon Passive Cannibalize

Unit consumes nearby corpses to regenerate 10 life points every second.
 
Upgrades:
Ripper I Lifepoints +5*6
Ripper I Cannibalize * +5 regeneration
Ripper II Lifepoints +5*6
Ripper II Cannibalize ** +5 regeneration
Ripper III Lifepoints +10x6
Ripper III Cannibalize ***

+5 regeneration

 
IMO, this card is okayish. I mean the ability is nice and all, and there are some decent life point upgrades, but other than that, it seems Ripper falls behind. While being T2, there are definitely going to be more buildings, spells, and other units that can destroy this guy in PVP and unlike Dark Elf Assassins, they are melee. PVE wise, I don't see much use for this card, again being outclassed by Small ranged T2 cards and Medium units. In T2 I would think more about Shadow Phoenix and Knight of Chaos but that's just me.
 
What do you guys think?
Edited by Loptous
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Really like the concept of this card, but the stats are kinda crap. They are pretty useful against bandit steelguards in rPvE though, as they are small counters and are melee. If they were to cost 50 power, they might be worth it in PvP.

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29 minutes ago, LagOps said:

this card will be underplayed regardless of the stats. it's just outclassed and also too costly. you would have to give it totally broken op stats to make it worth playing.

or change it to a M or L counter... But that would make other cards unneeded or this card will not be used because of other better cards.

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@SilenceKiller99 m counter is nightcrawler territory and you wouldn't be able to challange that at all with an s unit, as it is swift and can't get hurricaned. l counter doesn't work either since l units knock back s units, also ripper isn't swift so the l unit can just run through and the rippers will be unable to even catch up without cc support.

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4 minutes ago, SilenceKiller99 said:

or change it to a M or L counter... But that would make other cards unneeded or this card will not be used because of other better cards.

I'm not sure an L-counter for an S-squad is a good idea. I think the S counter matches the card quite well.

The problem with this card is that it wants to be a tank, but just can't take a punch. I'm not even focusing on pvp, because Darkelf Assassins make any other S-counter in T2 redundant (and making it an M-counter would still make it inferior to Nightcrawler).

The real problem is that 10 HP per seconds is absolutely nothing. Within 20 seconds, this is still only 200 HP and corpses won't even stay for that long to begin with.

I think this unit could make a somewhat decent tank if the healing would be increased appropriately and the ATK lowered slightly in return. Something around 20 HP per second sounds reasonable to me, if ATK would be lowered to about 620. It would need some testing, though.

When done right I think it could be an interesting T2 card for beginners and perhaps people find even some other usages.
 

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Banner_of_Glory-0.jpg

AbilityIcon Passive Glorious Death

Friendly units that die within a 25m radius of the banner immediately return 20% of their usual power refund into the power pool. The remaining power costs are granted as void power.
 
 
Upgrades:
Banner of Glory I Glorious Death +4% power refund
Banner of Glory II Glorious Death +4% power refund
Banner of Glory III Glorious Death +5% power refund
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Can be kinda useful in PvE to conserve some power when killing off units you don't use anymore. In PvP I don't really think it is worth a deck slot, as your enemy can decide to fight somewhere else, rendering your banner of glory useless. If you get rushed in T1 it may be kinda nice next to your home monument / wells. But for 40 power you can almost summon a squad of sunstriders. Not sure of the 20% insta power refund is going to be worth it, unless you are really fighting for a long time. 

Any T1 Fire/x players can say something over this thing in PvP?

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i tired it, but it can be avoided too easyly and 40 void bound in the early game make quite a difference; you often end up loosing more units, since you have less power and the void return isn't worth it either, as there isn't much void in t1 to begin with. aside from that, the hp are really really low and the banner often drops before you get enough use out of it. the low hp also make it less usefull in t2, where you would have enough void to make it work.

I have seen fire/frost players use this card instead of ice barrier, but i am not sure if it is worth playing, since the hp are so low and it doesn't have a fast construction. with fast construction and/or more hp it could be worth it for fire/frost and see more play.

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