Daily Card Discussion

[Treim]

11 minutes ago, Bkingn said:

hi guys what happened? theres no more cards? or why are you stop discussing? i love reading this :/

The threadcreator seems to be not active atm and noone else asked for a card to be discussed. Feel free to pick this up and propose new cards to be discussed

[EonBen]

1 hour ago, Bkingn said:

hi guys what happened? theres no more cards? or why are you stop discussing? i love reading this :/

I think @Loptous is just very busy or something, since I haven't seen him online in ages, and all his threads are dead atm. I'm sure he'll be back eventually though. 

[SilenceKiller99]

Everybody at @Loptous in your post! It will make him come back eventually 

If necessary I could suggest cards until our favorite card proposer is back xD

  

Acid Breath (Passive): Every 2 seconds, unit spits an acid cloud at enemies that deals 168 damage to enemies in a ?m radius, up to 252 in total.

Sleep well! (30 energy): Makes up to 3 enemy units fall asleep for 15 seconds. Affected units may neither move nor attack. After 3 seconds they will awake if being attacked. Reusable every 20 seconds.

Upgrades:

U1: +40 HP and 1 extra target for Sleepwell!

U2: +90 HP and 1 extra target for Sleepwell!

U3: +125 HP and 1 extra target for Sleepwell!

 

One of my favorite cards. It's strong for his stats. It beats a Skyfire Drake. It is strong against XL and can put them to sleep as a free Oink (if Oink gets on cooldown). Only weak point is in the deck making, because fathom lord is also a XL counter and has a CC-ability. 

Anyone has an opinion about the card or about my opinion? 

Edited April 14, 2016 by SilenceKiller99
Btw: Promo looks absolutely awesome!!!!

[Treim]

I think this card is completely average. Pretty much every splash it can be used in got something that is better, but they all got worse as well. I think it is a perfect beginner card, pretty decent, rather easy to use. You can definetly get along with this one. Actually this ones going to be in my deck for some rPVE lvl 9 farming in the very early stages of the game ( when you got deck lvls around 20-25). Maybe some references on what i think is better in certain splashes (from an rPVE perspeective) - note that those also base on personal preference and are sometimes somewhat equal in strength. I would prefer Swamp Drake over those cards due to synergy with my playstyle or just the feeling of the unit ( f.e. i totally dislike clunky units like Corsair or Abyssal Warder):

Stonekin ( this includes and ):

StoneWarrior >> Deepcoil Worm > Swamp Drake = Fathom Lord > Rageflame > Drones >> Deepfang > Tremor > Silverwind Lancers >> Thornbark >  Razorleaf

Cant judge Coredredge as i never used it, probably right between Drones and Deepfang. I do not include support units like Skyelf Sage or Timeless One in this list.

Pure Nature ( ):

Deepcoil Worm > Swamp Drake = Fathom Lord > Drones >> Abyssal Warder >> Thornbark > Razorleaf

Twilight ( this includes   and ):

Giant Slayer > Twilight Creeper > Deepcoil Worm > Magma Hurler > Swamp Drake = Fathom Lord > Mutating Maniac = Drones = Sun Reaver > Twilight Hag > Vulcan > Virtuoso >> Thornbark > Treefiend > Razorleaf

I can not really judge Spitfire. Probably somewhere between Sun Reaver and Twilight Hag.

Thats for the traditional splashes. Obviously you can combo Swamp Drake in all kind of rainbow decks or Shadow Nature, i will not cover those in here though.

If you got questions on why i put certain things somewhere, feel free to ask - if you want this kinda lists for all t3 units or a certain orb combination feel free to ask .

[SilenceKiller99]

@Treim I got a question about swamp drake in the pure nature row. Why is it equal to fathom lord? and why is it above abyssal but under deepcoil?

[YaBro0]

13 hours ago, SilenceKiller99 said:

@Treim I got a question about swamp drake in the pure nature row. Why is it equal to fathom lord? and why is it above abyssal but under deepcoil?

I guess that he is only talking about PvE and in PvE the fast movement and dmg reduction while moving from deepcoil is very useful. Also range and especially flying units are better than melee units in many times, because the are not limited by the ground limits like cliffs or Walls. 

Swamp drake is also in PvP a card that is just decent. In theory it looks very nice to have a XL-counter with CC in the air. The problem is the very low dmg. A XL counter has to deal with XL units quickly, because they are your opponents nukers which deal indane dmg in a short time. With a swamp drake you always need more than one to counter an XL unit and with support they won't even fullfil that purpose. 

It just gets heavily outclassed by other amazing XL counters like giant slayer, fathom lord and stone warrior. 

So the real meaning of playing a swamp drake in PvP is to have a air unit, because people don't have a air counter in T3 most of the time and have to use their T2 air counters. 

It's just that the dmg is so low that it take an eternity for it to nuke something and you need more than one and with that amount of power you could also play a heavy basenuker. It's a decent support unit due to it's good ability but gets simply outclassed in the part that is most important for its usefulness.

But still a playable card.

[Treim]

15 hours ago, SilenceKiller99 said:

@Treim I got a question about swamp drake in the pure nature row. Why is it equal to fathom lord? and why is it above abyssal but under deepcoil?

 

34 minutes ago, YaBro0 said:

I guess that he is only talking about PvE and in PvE the fast movement and dmg reduction while moving from deepcoil is very useful. Also range and especially flying units are better than melee units in many times, because the are not limited by the ground limits like cliffs or Walls. 

 

Yeah as i stated thats i was only really talking about rPVE and not PVP at all.

 

TL;DR:

Deepcoil worm > Swamp Drake: does everything better (stats, damage reduction, bonus damage to structures, cc), except not being air

Swamp Drake = Fathom Lord: Fathom Lord got superior stats but is worse at killing spawn and defending t4 got no anti air and the cc is generally not great.

Fathom > Drones: does everything slightly better than Drones.

Drones >> Abyssal Warder: Totally hate Abyssal Warder due to its clunkyness. The ability really saves it.

 

 

So for the reasoning behin the Pure nature row:

I guess Thornbark and Razorleaf is rather obvious, so ill go and explain the other ones.

Deepcoil Worm > Swamp Drake = Fathom Lord > Drones >> Abyssal Warder

Generally ranged units are way superior to melee units in PVE as you can calculate the enemy movement and actions way better than it is the case in PVP - less surprises id say .

So to put this in context. If i play Pure Nature i generally have Thunderstorm in my deck to kill off small units. Also i only play with 1 t3 unit, so there is no synergy regarding other units. keep that in mind . What Deepcoil Worm offers you over Swamp Drake is that it has obviously superior stats and the fact that you have bonus damage against structures. It got some kind of cc that is not negated by enemy units taking damage ( like Swampy has, even though you can play around that rather easily, still a slight plus imo). Also the damage reduction is nice. Basically Deepcoil does everything that Swampy does (except flying) but better ( most of it not by much, but it adds up)

Swampy and Fathom Lord are from an rPVE kind of perspective pretty equal. Basically Fathom Lord has superior stats but is melee and ground unit with only a single target cc which is pretty irrelevant as there is no real thread at t4 except Lost Vigils maybe. Swampy has a nice AOE cc that is not super great with Thunderstorm but you can play around that. Swamp Drakes have a way easier time clearing out the spawn building and defending t4 against a close base post t4 as they are less likely to pull it all. Basically Fathom Lord has superior stats but a harder time killing the most important thing at t4 - the spawn building, has no Anti-Air and is worse at defending t4. That makes them pretty equal imo.

Drones are basically a little bit worth than Fathom Lord - it has a little edge at attack type but has equal problems with Anti Air, reaching the Spawn building and defending t4. It has no cc however and worse stats. They are still fine though. Little fun fact about them: If you face Twilight enemies each unit of the squad counts as 1 unit for the Paralyze Towers. So basically one of them can take the whole cc . Not to usefull unless you play a t3 deck though .

Well now to Abyssal Warder. The stats are actually ok and the ability of splitting up is somewhat cool however i never really felt like it was to usefull. The Crystal Spikes always felt pretty useless to me for its cost and well as i already stated in my post i totally hate clunky units and Abyssal Warder is one of that kind. It always felt slow and somewhat uncomfortable to me. It has the same problems as all the melee units. I know some people totally loved that card and would put it probably even over Deepcoil Worm. But i just never got warm with it - and probably never will. From an more objective standpoint i would probably put it slightly under Fathom Lord and over Drones. Due to my hate on that card i would never use it over anything besides Razorleaf or Thornbark which feel even clunkier to me

 

[Treckster]

 

So, lets bring the life back to this here.

What do you thing about this tower, guys?

Description: Every 5 Seconds 420 dmg in 10 m radius, up to 630 in total. Knocks back small units. Targets has to be 10m away. Long range of 60m.

Blue: Knocks back medium units.

Red: Siege: 50% more dmg against structures.

Is the siege bonus usefull? Does it help in PvP lategame? Or in some PvE Maps? Or is the blue card in general better? Whats your experience with it? Did you ever used this Card?

[ImaginaryNumb3r]

A very fun card actually. Of course, nothing I'd take into pvp because of many reasons (binds power, better options for fire/nature in T3, slot scarcity to begin with, etc.).

I tested it out a few times and it's really nice to kill walls and structures safely from afar. Sure, Deepcoil worm has siege too but its easily killed and might have problems staying alive long enough to actually finish the job or spend a lot of energy on heals + cc. And if you want to go 2 DC worms, you need to be willing to spend 500e. That's insane and for that price you can build 5 Twilight Bombards who bring twice the firepower of 2 DC worms.

Of course, the bombard lacks mobility and that's an issue in pvp but not so much in pve where you often have bigger problems to raise a big enough army to match enemy forces. So, it's a map specific card but when played right I think it can make a lot of maps easier. Especially since Twilight is very short on true base nuking capabilities.

Naturally, I was only talking about the red affinity. I think the blue affinity is pretty much worthless.

[yotk]

i never used it but i probably encounter it on PvE although dont remember it.

its looks like a nice artillery card ( i love artillery cards )

in which is better the red or the blue i think its depends on the situation  

 

[Treckster]

Quote

I think the blue affinity is pretty much worthless.

In my opinion, the blue affinity is the better option in PvE. In maps were you have to defends specific positions, this card is really usefull. Knocking back small and medium units, with a range of 60m is pretty good. Also this card can attack air units! Not like Hammerfall, the stonekin version of it.

[EonBen]

depends on the map which one is better, in maps where you need a strong defense, Blue affinity is best, but in maps where you wanna use it as a basenuker, red is best. Either way, it's a situational card and I would only put it in my deck when I'm on a map where I'll be in one of those 2 situations.

 

[pajasin]

When i was new in the forge, most of my opponents had build a fortress from many buildings that i cannot destroy, i was satisfied by the termite hill. But i cannot afford it so i was looking for replacement and i found this beast and it can cut through any defense system like a hot knife through butter. But when you do not need ruin opponents fortifications you do not need this card either :D.

 

 

 

[YaBro0]

Of course this card is not the real deal in PvP. However I remember making some experiments with the red affinity and bandit sorceress to increase the range to 70m. It works on pretty good on small maps like Elyon, yrmia or Wazhai but of course without having an advatange it is hard to pull of but the times it works out, it gives you the chills

Edited April 17, 2016 by YaBro0

[Treckster]

 

A new day, a new card.

Rageclaws has its turn now.

Description:

Rage: Unit does more dmg the longer it attacks, fall back to original dmg output after 5 seconds if it doesnt attack

I actually never used this card, cause of this rage thing. But is this card usefull in PvP or PvE? Is this card 70 energy worth or need it some buffs? (or nerfs?)

[SilenceKiller99]

In PvP its kinda strange... It is a strong card. It has siege (no, it has no siege, but with rage built up it can be pretty strong against wells/monuments). Its like better than decent.

The problem is: Its a M counter. And pure fire has the fat ogre card as M counter, which is way superior. Also, every fire splash has skyfire drake, which is a flying unit and also pretty strong. Splashing with nature you have ghostspears, splashing with frost you have stormsinger and splashing with shadow you have nightcrawler. So its kind of not needed, because it has so much 'competition' from other cards.

[SunWu]

Decent PvP card wich works best in a fire/frost deck. In pure fire, bandits and fire/nature it's viable but not worth a slot for the most competitive players. Though it can help even pure fire to attack vs pure frost and is nice if it's buffed bandits style.

[Eirias]

6 hours ago, Treckster said:

 

A new day, a new card.

Rageclaws has its turn now.

Description:

Rage: Unit does more dmg the longer it attacks, fall back to original dmg output after 5 seconds if it doesnt attack

I actually never used this card, cause of this rage thing. But is this card usefull in PvP or PvE? Is this card 70 energy worth or need it some buffs? (or nerfs?)

No, it doesn't need buffs (and especially not nerfs). Like @SilenceKiller99 said, it's a good card, but generally redundant. There are lots of good combos with this card especially with buffs, and I generally feel that it's slept on a bit, but all of the counters to it are really essential. Nature has cc like oink or hurricane, Frost has freeze (which, admittidly, is a good thing if you can force it, but frost doesn't need to worry about this card) and basically any Frost t1 card beats it. Shadow has darkelf assasins. Fire can disenchant them if they get over-buffed, and scythe fiends beat them without buffs.

So the reason the card isn't very popular is because most factions have better options, and almost every normal deck already has strong counters against them.

HOWEVER, those reasons don't hold up in tome  I made rank #1 in tome with rageclaws, darkelf assassins, rallying banner, and unholy power in my t2. 4 cards . But in tome, every deck has holes, and rageclaws are very strong if they aren't countered properly.

But back to real decks: They're useful in a fire-frost deck because rageclaws have good dps, and frost units struggle a bit with it. If buffed, rageclaws are good against fire and/or shadow, because those factions don't have cc (or good S knockback). They can be useful against frost to force a freeze (or t1 cards, which you can kill with a drake). But rageclaws are essentially useless against nature, which means they can't be depended on to kill burrowers, which means you need another M counter in addition to rageclaws for the nature matchup. Since most decks don't have room for a card that is useless in 1/3-1/2 of the matchups, rageclaws are rarely used.

[forger2]

On 4/16/2016 at 9:19 AM, Treckster said:

 

So, lets bring the life back to this here.

What do you thing about this tower, guys?

Description: Every 5 Seconds 420 dmg in 10 m radius, up to 630 in total. Knocks back small units. Targets has to be 10m away. Long range of 60m.

Blue: Knocks back medium units.

Red: Siege: 50% more dmg against structures.

Is the siege bonus usefull? Does it help in PvP lategame? Or in some PvE Maps? Or is the blue card in general better? Whats your experience with it? Did you ever used this Card?

The siege bonus we only be useful for walls and if you can get one built in time near the enemy base, so blue

[EonBen]

4 hours ago, forger2 said:

The siege bonus we only be useful for walls and if you can get one built in time near the enemy base, so blue

I mean... not only walls but all Enemy buildings lol, so red is definitely worth it on some maps, like I said earlier, this card is very situational, and one affinity will be better over the other depending on the map.

[Treckster]

 

Bit late, but here is a new card: Bandit Lancer.

Description:

Branding: Activate to mark the enemy. All ranged attackers within a 65m radius will focus their attacks on marked target while their attack range are increased by 15m.Lasts for 15s. Reusable every 30s.

Power: 30

Gifted: disable its special abilities and force it move at walk speed only

Tainted: enemy take 15% more damage.

 

So in my opinion, this card is really good. In PvE and PvP. His ability is really strong, when you go on range units, and fire/shadow has some nice range units (Commandos, Gladiatrix, Darkelf Assassin)

You can focus a big, strong unit and take him out easily. Both affinities are good and i don't see any disadvantages on this card.

 

What's your opinion? Is this card really good in PvP for Bandit player? Is the ability 30 Power worth? Did you use it yourself in old Battleforge? Let us know!

[LagOps]

what can i say? i love this card, it was exactly what was needed in bandits t3 to be able to intercept and defend l units. the unit is very cost effective, even a bit stronger than silverwind lancer when considering the difference in power. however, the bandits deck provides less support for the card so in my opinion the stats are still justified (but close to being over the top). the ability is amazing, i play the one with the slow to be able to intercept the enemy, but the other affinity also isn't useless. the extra range for ranged units is basically useles, because all units you would want to combo with that have some sort of spectial attack animation that does glich out (gunner, ashbone etc.). if i recally correctly, the ability is free on u3, which might be a bit too much. considering how cheap lancers are and that the ability does not have an animation, the cooldown on the ability does not stop it from being a no-brainer.

[EonBen]

13 minutes ago, LagOps said:

if i recally correctly, the ability is free on u3, which might be a bit too much.

WAIT? seriously? Is there someone who can confirm this? Because with the card being so cheap, and having such an amazing ability for free, it seems pretty darn awesome  even without the ability being free, it still seems pretty cool, definitely gonna have to test it out once the game comes out  

[Ladadoos]

25 minutes ago, EonBen said:

WAIT? seriously? Is there someone who can confirm this? 

41 minutes ago, LagOps said:

if i recally correctly, the ability is free on u3, which might be a bit too much

 

I checked and the ability is free on U2 already.

[pajasin]

this card is strong and that ability makes even stronger i have fun with this card i was using that range improvement i do not  know if it is better or not but that was fun sniping them