Jump to content

Daily Card Discussion


Loptous

Recommended Posts

Nomad. A great card.

But first, why should anybody consider replacing Scavenger with Nomad? Scavenger is used in pvp because it fills 2 roles: slow and anti-s. Nomad does none of those things, it has an entirely different job. But neither could Scavenger replace Nomad in a pve scenario... (that argument goes both ways).
Also, Thugs have become the meta for Fire T1 and has become a very essential part of fire T1. Of course you take that card over Nomads (just saying).

But first, I'll talk about PvE. With the red affinity you can easily overrun enemy T1 fortification. Their damage is insane and all you need are some Sunstriders to cover air. The AA is nice to have, but far too expensive for what it does. It's a bit risky, but with some experience and micro you get a lot of value for that card.

With the 50% damage buf, it actually has by far the best stats among all Fire T1 cards when you calculate how much bang you get for buck. And it is also has the best stats among all T1 cards in general. The reason you don't see it often is because it has to attack in groups of 3+ so it is easily killable with splash spells like nasty and eruption.

Some people prefer the green ability because it is easier to use and give you some good macro abilities and a lot of staying power, given that you are not overrun by a vast superiority. So, in pve it is a matter of personal taste. And since Scavenger isn't really a good pve card, Nomads are a really great swift pve asset.

Moreover, it's a very good starting card for rPvE, as well as user friendly and fun in general. I preferred using Thugs + Sunstriders, as those are a bit more risky to use but on top of it, give you additional resources. But that's a story for a different time

Anyway, green Nomads have unique properties for Fire 1 standards and you know what? There were top tier players who used Green Nomads to beat Frost T1. So it's far, FAR away from being a bad. Especially in pvp. Most notably "Legend" who inveted this strategy. But this was near the end of BF.

Because Frost can't kill Nomads (or anything, really) very fast their passive heal really starts to kick in. And unlike Shadow and Fire, Frost does not have instant damage spells that would deal splash damage.

And if Frost has a scary looking army that could kill Nomads? lol, run away.

9/10

 

Btw. is there are reason we only discuss T1 cards now?

I knew it had some use for PVE but not so much for PVP in my opinion, but then again what do I know lol.

Well said again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nomads are the standard PVE card, for a good reason. Red affinity was doing a shit ton of damage( not like fire would need that). I personally prefered the green affinity just cuz mines do the work anyways and in some situations the extra health you gain from the passive comes in very handy( when facing some heavy Lost Souls t2 bases, like shielded mana beasts and lost dancers). Mines still kills it all but it takes little more time and mana beasts and lost dancers actually do some damage. Even though it does not really matter what units you use in t1 if you use mines, you just gonna need enough HP for mines doing the work, at least for lvl 9 and vast majority of lvl 10.
On top of that its the only card that can trap incomes effectively(except you are facing Lost Dancers in which case you can do it with any squad unit). That can enable you taking t2 without pulling the t3 base at outer positions( 99.95% of the time t2 is not to close to t3 at all by itself, the base just gets pulled when the income pulls it). Obviously you can do that also at t3 and t4. Same goes in normal PVE. Pritstift and me actually used that strategy helping us to win a Community Challenge :).

Where Nomads really kicks in are those nasty lvl 10 Lost Souls speedruns where you fight against Lost Vigils and multiple Treefiends and need to get in range to erupt the spawn camp. Generally you can do it with 3-4 Nomads in time, 3 if you have good coordination with your teammates, 4 if you have bad coordination or gotta have to erupt it alone( for whatever reason you would do it alone lol). You really need the tankiness and swift of nomads to do that. If you have 4 nomads and really good coordination with your teammates you should be able to kill the whole t2 with just those( except the tower probably, even though thats possible as well).

The ability isn't that great tbh but it doesnt really matter as the role of Nomads is not really attacking. Even if you dont wanna have any archers in your deck, it generally is more effective to just use eruptions to kill thei air stuff, you just gotta need to hit 2 targets and its already more effective than the spear. It really only is worth if you cant hit 2 targets with eruptions and need more than 300 damage to kill the air unit, happens super rarely though and most peopl have some kind of anti air anyways.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jorne.thumb.jpg.8340d0dab79de62200ab0c24

So this card, I think is the only card with the highest base stat line without any buffs. 

Also I found this very interesting on his Page on the Battleforge Wiki.... 

Card UpgradeType or AbilityEffect
Jorne Icu da veia 
Jorne IIENFIEI O PAL EM JORNE!! 
Jorne IIIjOU MASE POES

What is this?

Anyways, great card for PVE especially in long and hard runs of high difficulty, giving that nice buff to Brannoc and Lord Cyrian is pretty cool.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jorne.thumb.jpg.8340d0dab79de62200ab0c24

So this card, I think is the only card with the highest base stat line without any buffs. 

Also I found this very interesting on his Page on the Battleforge Wiki.... 

Card UpgradeType or AbilityEffect
Jorne Icu da veia 
Jorne IIENFIEI O PAL EM JORNE!! 
Jorne IIIjOU MASE POES

What is this?

Anyways, great card for PVE especially in long and hard runs of high difficulty, giving that nice buff to Brannoc and Lord Cyrian is pretty cool.

It pretty much does what you expect from a T4 neutral card at 300 power cost. It's really not bad card and delivers quite a punch. I am not really fond of Legendary cards (unless it's Incredible Mo since you only need one one the map). It limits you to play only one card at the time and if you play with other people you always have to fear that somebody else gets to play it before you. And if that happens, you are screwed and wasted one deck slot.

I guess it's good when you do solo (r)pve maps. Still, I just think having more units on the field that are a bit less efficient than Jorne is still better than having just one very good card under your command.

Don't understand me wrong, by itself it IS a good card. And it does not only have the best T4 stats but also comes at a very reasonable price.

What makes me sad about the card that it screams for LSS abuse. Make a Jorne for ground presence and some really good XL/XL firepower and spam the f*** out of those LSS.
Of course I mean "fork" what did you read? Using Jorne + LSS is also somewhat risky, as you lose all your ground presence if you let him be killed.

Because other than that I can't really think of a serious colour combination that would need this card. Heck, even a rainbow deck can just summon normal anti XL with Bloodhorns for that matter.

Of course Stonekin T4 does not have an anti-XL but in all honesty, it really does not need one either. It would be cool to give them a unique T4 anti-XL with some neat abilities but it works perfectly without it.

The abilities are nice to have and actually can make Brannoc viable in T4... but that is more due to the fact that Brannoc is op in the first place. But that's not enough to really convince me.

 

6.5/10

It's good, but if you use this card I guess you most likely made some poor decisions regarding the overall strategy of your deck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The stats itself are good as already mentioned but i dont really see a place where it is needed. If you play LSS you really do not need this card as ground presence. Either you play Bloodhorns or just straight up use fallen skyelf( not as fast as XL counters but you have an extra LSS for majority of the map. Also you are not risking of it getting focused down. You really  dont need ground presence in bases when you play LSS, so instead of binding 240/300 power in a ground presence card that might die in fights it is superior to just have a rifle cultists one base behind your LSS( you obviously are not allowed to let anything to slip through and be aware of incomes that might pass the way, so you really gonna need to care about positioning and the way you choose to go). Generally its only usefull to have an XL counter in your LSS deck if you face stonekin maps, as they have generally more High HP XL bosses ( especially true for 2 Player maps). However on those maps Batariel is superior anyways, but thats for a different time. Another point actually is that ground presence can literally fck your air units against Lost Souls. Those nasty necrofurys are not able to focus air units right? well they still can hurt them. When your ground presence is right under your ships, they do take damage( not like the ground presence would live for long anyways).

Really just not worth to put jorne into your deck generally, unless you wanna build a deck with as much legendary cards as possible :D

Edited by Treim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The stats itself are good as already mentioned but i dont really see a place where it is needed. If you play LSS you really do not need this card as ground presence. Either you play Bloodhorns or just straight up use fallen skyelf( not as fast as XL counters but you have an extra LSS for majority of the map. Also you are not risking of it getting focused down. You really  dont need ground presence in bases when you play LSS, so instead of binding 240/300 power in a ground presence card that might die in fights it is superior to just have a rifle cultists one base behind your LSS( you obviously are not allowed to let anything to slip through and be aware of incomes that might pass the way, so you really gonna need to care about positioning and the way you choose to go). Generally its only usefull to have an XL counter in your LSS deck if you face stonekin maps, as they have generally more High HP XL bosses ( especially true for 2 Player maps). However on those maps Batariel is superior anyways, but thats for a different time. Another point actually is that ground presence can literally fck your air units against Lost Souls. Those nasty necrofurys are not able to focus air units right? well they still can hurt them. When your ground presence is right under your ships, they do take damage( not like the ground presence would live for long anyways).

Really just not worth to put jorne into your deck generally, unless you wanna build a deck with as much legendary cards as possible :D

Like Hearthstone, I like all Legendaries :D 

Edited by Loptous
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi i would like to hear your opinions on this card http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/battleforge/images/1/1d/Tainted_Willzapper-0.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120128174633
(I do not figure out how to input picture sry :\)
My opinion : I used this card only few times in 2v2 pvp with my friend (as ally) , in sort of Fun games :)
We was doing it like when enemy well was being destroyed i builded two of these there  and non willzapper was destroyed then we have huge power advantage :)
Im asking just if anyone else do that at least once and how it ended :):)
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi i would like to hear your opinions on this card http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/battleforge/images/1/1d/Tainted_Willzapper-0.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120128174633
(I do not figure out how to input picture sry :\)
My opinion : I used this card only few times in 2v2 pvp with my friend (as ally) , in sort of Fun games :)
We was doing it like when enemy well was being destroyed i builded two of these there  and non willzapper was destroyed then we have huge power advantage :)
Im asking just if anyone else do that at least once and how it ended :):)
 

You can make pictures by using the "Insert other media" button. It is located right under the left lower corner of the text box.

And wow, you actually managed to do something with this card? Very nice. I know that was not high ranked, but still.

For me this card was always nothing more than a running gag. A terrible example how not to make a card.

So, no I never really used it but only ever saw it as a waste of slots. It does sound fun in theory... but first you actually need to build up the structure where your enemy can summon units easily. 70 power in T2 is nothing to sneeze at and on top of it, activating the structure costs power and works only for a limited amount of time.

And if I understand correctly, you need to have ground presence to build this structure... uh.

That's just too dicey for my taste. I could potentially see this card working in a less slot intense deck like Fire, but Fire/Nature already does not have a lot of room for "premium cards".

Of course, IFF you can make it to the point to activate it, I guess it's worth it. And if I read it correctly only the void energy but not the normal power well refund is redirected into the voidnet? Again, very dicey.

Normally I try to figure out how to make such a card viable and fun to use, but I also see a lot of toxic optential that could disrupt the whole gameplay. There are too many cards that mess with power refund already and I would actually like to see such cards being decreased in use and not increased. After a ton of tweaking you could potentially come up with a balanced card, but so much time and effort are better inveted into balancing other key cards.

 

Still, you broadened my horizon by telling us that you managed to make it work at least once :)

Edited by Mental Omega
Link to comment
Share on other sites

(I do not figure out how to input picture sry :\)

Even though @Mental Omega already told you one way of inserting a picture, I still think I should let you know about this thread: http://forum.bfreborn.com/index.php?/topic/1124-guide-useful-forum-features/ (It shows a couple different ways of adding pictures to your posts).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lost-Wanderer_nature.thumb.jpg.8a9d30532Lost-Wanderer_frost.thumb.jpg.5fb280e7e9

Heyo I am back and so is a new card to talk about. Anyhow, obviously without a doubt the Green Affinity is far superior to the blue one, because who likes healing more than damage against frozen units?

I have not the slightest clue of how this card would work in any deck for PVP, when there are far more better options. The only thing I like about this card is the auto cast of shields upon any unit this card sees fit. In PVE this card would alright to use in Battlegrounds and anything can be pretty much used in Campaign. Not sure in Speedruns of course, I hope our dear friend Treim can enlighten us on the value of this card being used in Speedruns. 

I would give it a 7.1 out of 10 because, it's supporting skills are pretty nice, although the stat line being a little week due to an 80 cost 2 orbed card. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have seen Replays of people successfully using Lost Wanderer as a Suport unit to give Reavers and other units contstant Ice shields making them very hard to kill, only problem would be actually fitting it in your deck, so it's probably more for T2 heavy PvP decks.

click here for a PvP Replay with successful use of Wanderer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TL;DR: You can use it if you want but generally i would prefer spells over this card as they have its use in later game stages as well. Support Units are with very few exceptions not viable as they simply do not fullfill the requirements for speedruns. Buildings are way more common, due to their often times global effects and use in a longer period of a game.

Actually thats one of the few cards that are at least somewhat viable in rPVE that i cant remember to use ever. In theory it can work with something against Lost Reaver or Shadow Phoenixes. On the other hand the shielding is random afaik and that is always a negative and on top of it generally you are fine with Lost Reaver or Shadow Phoenix alone, those are simply strong enough to take out most t3 bases alone( especially shadow phoenix). And for Lost Reaver i would much rather prefer cc spells( Coldsnap) and buffs ( Life Weaving) to do the work. I mean you can use Lost Wanderer, just for the sake of using it. However it is more a support unit with its shielding ability, but as it effects only 1 unit at a time you need a unit worth using it on and to minimize the randomness.

In speedruns this card is definetly not viable. What you want in rPVE speedruns is to get to t4 with in a reasonable time with using as less slots as possible As t4 is the major part of the map where you can 'win' most time. Thatfor a support unit is generally not usefull. You rather want as much damage as possible with as much defense as necassery, and support units generally offer not the right balance of those. You would even rather use support spells to achieve what you want than units or buildings, as spells generally offer at least some power in the t4 stages of a game as they do not bind power and you basically get the power back immediately by your void manipulation. The problem about most of those cards is that they do not offer more value regarding speed than other cards and are mostly optional.
There obviously are support buildings and units that are the exception and are core parts of all/ most of the rPVE speedruns. Those are:

  • Breeding Grounds
  • Amii-Monument
  • Flame Crystal
  • Embalmers Shrine
  • Furnace of Flesh
  • Soul Splicer
  • Shrine of War
  • Construction Hut ( if you want to kill this a supportive unit
  • Resource Booster ( if you want to kill this a supportive building)
  • Incredible Mo

Those are common cards that are kinda normal to appear in speedrun decks, even though some are more situational than others and you will never see all of them in the same deck. Some are more core than others but they all having their value in their respective decks.

However there are supportive cards that are like very situational and you only ever see them when you have to many slots or they come in handy very much. Most of the time those cards are used only 4 Player speedruns and one of those players has pretty much only the job to support the other players by buildings and spells as he doesn't have the power to do much else anyways due to whatever reason. He will build cards like.

  • Healing Gardens
  • Wheel of Gifts
  • Most of the supportive cards mentioned in the first list

Other buildings that are used rarely but do have their moments to shine:

  • Decomposer
  • Mark of the Keeper
  • Portal Nexus
  • Tunnel( with Burrowing Ritual)
  • Warden's Sigil
  • Stone of Torment ( even though that ones not a support building)
  • Makeshift Tower ( even though that ones not a support building)

As you can see those lists only include buildings. The only units that are generally not used for attacking and you can find in a speedrun decks are:

  • Fallen Skyelf
  • Cultist Master
  • Rifle Cultists

I guess thats caused by the fact that there aren't all that many units that are usefull in t4 ( especially as you can not keep those alive that needs to be in the fights as they will just die to all the damage they will get as you army is generally very small. They'd straight up die. Fallen Skyelf you send in when the base is cleared besides a boss and you can focus the boss down. Cultist Master is used for void manipulation and Rifle Cultists to get your charges back. And before t4 it is pretty much pointless to get a supportive unit as it soakes up a slot for t4 buffing and its use is so limited.

Like the only exception might be Dryades and Snapjaws. However Nature t1 is the very last thing you ever want to pick in a speedrun and even if you do Dryade is optional( and no shamans are not viable). Snapjaws are super situational as well. The only real purpose i see is in 2 Player Lost Souls Map. If you have a massive t2 with Lost Vigils and Treefiends and get Lost Vigil incomes, they can be worth. On the other Hand you generally start fire yourself or get massive help from the guy on the other position( or both). You will generally not have enough slots to put this in when you are soloing the map, so well i guess you can use it if you really want. Besides that i couldnt think of any support unit that is worth it using in speedruns( i might let one slip through though or you might just blow my mind with a nasty new strategy?)

Anyways this one went really long so im sorry for that :D

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have seen Replays of people successfully using Lost Wanderer as a Suport unit to give Reavers and other units contstant Ice shields making them very hard to kill, only problem would be actually fitting it in your deck, so it's probably more for T2 heavy PvP decks.

click here for a PvP Replay with successful use of Wanderer.

This replay has sadly nothing to do with a successful use of wanderer.

The game was won by a longer t1 with a bad t2 offensive into that nasty against the drake and ghostspears.

Spamming reavers mountaineers or literally anything at that point would have won the game.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This replay has sadly nothing to do with a successful use of wanderer.

The game was won by a longer t1 with a bad t2 offensive into that nasty against the drake and ghostspears.

Spamming reavers mountaineers or literally anything at that point would have won the game.

 

Didn't feel like looking further for a different one, cause like I said, it's viable, but not used that much, I'd probably not use it simply because of not having the room for it in my deck. 

And btw, for those who don't know, you can decide who Wanderer casts the shield on with the same way you decide who shaman targets with it's heals, so it's not random at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SOO MUCH TEXT

Oh my, and I thought I make long posts :D

Didn't feel like looking further for a different one, cause like I said, it's viable, but not used that much, I'd probably not use it simply because of not having the room for it in my deck. 

And btw, for those who don't know, you can decide who Wanderer casts the shield on with the same way you decide who shaman targets with it's heals, so it's not random at all.

I agree with Hiroo that pretty much every card would have won by now. He even could have played Lost Dancers or Lost Shades at that point and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Also, this video could give the impression that lost Priest is actually a good card... it's terrible.

At least Lost Wanderer is not bad per se. He does a lot of things, but he does not do anything well. And for that you pay a premium price.

LS being a shadow splash, they already have NC, a far superior M-counter. The shield does not make a big difference because Lost has high health to begin with. It's a poor man's Area Ice Shield which provides less shields and what is even worse, binds power. And the passive ability is is nice to have at best, too?

 

None of his abilities are good enough to change the gameplay of lost decisively. If you want to make it REALLY viable, I'd either suggest turning it into a "Shield Shaman" or "Lost Crystal Fiend" type of unit and get rid of the passive ability.

Or you really crank up the passive ability to something useful. Maybe something like 40% more damage to frozen units? Or the Wanderer dealing 75% more damage to frozen units?

Or maybe add a buff to the shield, so it also provides useful extras like shield penetration, more attack, slow health regen.

Or you could make that Revenants last 50% longer in his presence.

 

There are really cool things you could make with this unit that gives LS more than the usual shadow + repair lame feeling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Deathglider_nature.thumb.jpg.d0e2f2ef77aDeathglide_frost.thumb.jpg.1d1b387bc0679

My words are at a lost for this card, for I have never used it. 

I cannot find a particular use for this card other than it's transformation skill, which in this case requires 0 power.

I cannot test to see how it would work in game because, obviously it is not out yet, but until then enlighten me upon this card

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really see a point in using this card tbh. Fire Nature got enough tools to deal with units on walls( hurricane, burrower) and the s knockback is nice, but the range is way to limited. Also you got tools to deal with s units in Fire Nature anyways ( hurricane, mine). The Stats are nothing to bother about either. And i never found the Transformation feature useful to say the least.

Fire Nature got so many good options in t2 regarding units( burrower, vileblood, scythe fiends, gladiatrix, skyfire drake) that this card is just straight up not needed. I would rather choose any of the cards mentioned before picking up death glider. Especially as in rPVE you really want a slim t2.

Guess theres not to much to say about this card. Actually besides using this one like few times to test it out i cant remember anyone using it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Deathglider_nature.thumb.jpg.d0e2f2ef77aDeathglide_frost.thumb.jpg.1d1b387bc0679

My words are at a lost for this card, for I have never used it. 

I cannot find a particular use for this card other than it's transformation skill, which in this case requires 0 power.

I cannot test to see how it would work in game because, obviously it is not out yet, but until then enlighten me upon this card


Yeah, there is really not a lot to talk about this card. I did try it a few times but the fact that it's flying and knocks back S creatures don't make up for the very poor stats.

Even at 50 power this unit would still not be worth it as it would still die to anything that can look at it.

At best, this unit can work as an anti-S supporter due it its perma knockback. But in any case you'll need another unit to finish them off.

In theory, I could see a second S-counter for Fire/Nature as a nice addition. Scythe Fiends are far from being bad, but it would be fun trying out how a different anti-S would work out. Also, Scythe Fiends are expensive and I don't want to use 100 power every time I have to deal with small creatures...

But this is more about pve than it is pvp.

I think 60 power for 670 ATK / 500 HP would be justified in that regard.

Other than that, I really can't think of anything else.

 

Also, may I suggest some kind of index at the front page of this thread with all cards that have been discussed?

After all, the main idea behind this was to have some sort of catalog to talk about specific cards, but it has gotten quite hard to find particular cards now. Also, it would be easier to check which cards were already discussed to avoid having multiple cards.

Edit: Apparently I was too slow :P

 

Edited by Mental Omega
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i cant remember anyone using it.

I only remember one guy, forgot his name, who was around legend/hero level who played nature/fire with deathglider. It's probably a deckslot wich isn't completly wasted but could be used much better (especially when you play a slot-intensive nature T1).
 The only advantage i see is going T2 early vs fire T1 wich really has no counter against deathglider.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Also, may I suggest some kind of index at the front page of this thread with all cards that have been discussed?

After all, the main idea behind this was to have some sort of catalog to talk about specific cards, but it has gotten quite hard to find particular cards now. Also, it would be easier to check which cards were already discussed to avoid having multiple cards.

 

I think that Index thing on the frontpage would indeed be a nice addition. Probably you could even add at which side the cards have been discussed.

Edited by Treim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Didn't feel like looking further for a different one, cause like I said, it's viable, but not used that much, I'd probably not use it simply because of not having the room for it in my deck. 

I tested that card alot. Since the unit autocasts the shield you have to give the order as soon as it trys to shield. Felt like it was way more slugish compared to shaman.

Stats are mediocore and a squishy M unit is probably the worst unit type in t2. Some slight buff like storing the shieldcharge until the player gives order so shield or making it swift or buffing its hp a bit more could make it viable but in its current form its too easy to focus since its M, not super tanky and meele.

 The only advantage i see is going T2 early vs fire T1 wich really has no counter against deathglider.

With 50-100 energyadvantage I am convinced fire t1 can counter them simply by spamming sunstriders splitted. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • fiki574 locked and unlocked this topic

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Terms of Use