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MrXLink

Current Proposal: Tokens & Gold

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Well actually there were 3 currency. 1. BFP to buy cards, 2. Gold the fee to upgrade a card and 3. the tokens which you could use to buy upgrades (if you were too unlucky to get the upgrades as reward from maps which you needed). The 3rd doesn't really count and wasn't mentioned so far and is not important. Gold is actually only needed to upgrade and for nothing else if i remember correctly and later in the game you had ALOT of gold and didnt need it so yeah you can reduce the amount of currency to one. Probably Gold would be the only one left. But then you have to delete all gold chests from maps otherwise you will have a 2nd opportunity to farm currency and that could boost the progress too much and this has to be balance again. And i actually like the benefit with the 2 currencies so i can collect and upgrade all cards more easily without paying too much. 

 

And to the off topic progess: playing time will give you additional BFP but at a lower rate than the daily quests as already mentioned i guess. To give a higher reward to people who play alot the amount of daily quests can be easily increased so they have a higher reward but not too high as the main daily quests which should give the highest part of the reward so player have a progess without playing too much but still uber active players get enough. For example: a pack costs 150 BFP and the main Daily quests could be like: Play a PvP Match and a PvE map and a rPvE match. Each gives you 50 BFP so you can buy 1 Pack a day (might be enough or not its just an example). The next reward level might be play 2 More PvP, PvE and rPvE matches and you will get additional 50 BFP so you can buy another Pack. Not directly proportional and no idea if its even close to the actual suggestions because i do not remember that i have read anything about it and it was just an example which should show how the progress imo could be. And no idea how high the reward of playing time could be. Maybe 75 BFP a day at this rates: 1. Hour = 30 BFP; 2. Hour = 20 BFP; 4. Hour = 15 BFP and 6. Hour = 10 BFP. And 6 hours are alot and if you are super active you can buy 5 Packs within 2 days and 2 2/3 within 2 days if you just play for 2h a day for the main rewards. 

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I totally agree with @ItsChon

 

And also slowing down the reward by playing, is also bad. Yeah some people will go faster. And what, they play. If you can't play, you will not go as fast as them. it's simple as that.
And slowing down reward also rekt the NPE (New player experience), because the new player, he wasn't here day one...

 

5 hours ago, bazzacah said:

Well actually there were 3 currency. 1. BFP to buy cards, 2. Gold the fee to upgrade a card and 3. the tokens which you could use to buy upgrades (if you were too unlucky to get the upgrades as reward from maps which you needed). The 3rd doesn't really count and wasn't mentioned so far and is not important. Gold is actually only needed to upgrade and for nothing else if i remember correctly and later in the game you had ALOT of gold and didnt need it so yeah you can reduce the amount of currency to one. Probably Gold would be the only one left. But then you have to delete all gold chests from maps otherwise you will have a 2nd opportunity to farm currency and that could boost the progress too much and this has to be balance again. And i actually like the benefit with the 2 currencies so i can collect and upgrade all cards more easily without paying too much.



You don't know how how much gold will be rewarded per games, and how much you will need to pay to do stuff.

Edited by TheSilverlost
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Wasn't the reward depending on the difficulty of the map and 10-50 Gold? And the upgarde cost were depending on the rarity of the card. If i remember correctly the costs for rare cards were like 100 250 and 500 gold or something like that? And you also were rewarded with Gold if you already had an upgrade from an PvE map and you got it again. 

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on thing to the part with playing hours, even people which works 8 hours a day and family have time to play 4 hours, i would even say if they have time to play on a few days a week they want to play what they like for 3-4 hours, its more unlikely that they will play 1hour/day on more days/every day.

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I really think we should stick with gold and bfp; one tradeable and one untradeable.

The main reasons for this are multiaccounting and new player experience:

the npe in the old battleforge was pretty bad. you were stuck with starter cards and no gold etc. for upgrades. For the new skylords reborn, you could start with a lot of gold and 4x all starter cards (you can get them 4x anyways with multiaccounting and players will use that if you give them upgrade currency but no cards for charges) and so you could upgrade and charge a basic deck to some extend. this way, you could play pve, and maybe even pvp, without being a total liability to your team. Alternatively you could try to get bfp while saving some of your gold if you have a specific deck you want to transition to early on. Gold gives you choice in how you advance in the game with cards that you allready own and bfp allows you to aquire more cards.

If you only had one currency, you couldn't be given any of it at the start of the game due to multiaccounting=free money. of course with gold+bfp you could still do dayly quests on multiple accounts, but your main account only has limited amounts of gold. While you could get many costly cards, you still wouldn't be able to upgrade them without playing on your main account (especially since rare cards need more gold to upgrade). While this doesn't get rid of multiaccounting entirely (this is hard to do in an open economy) it at least disincentivizes it to a certain extend.

Additionally having only one currency and taking the importance of upgrades and charges into account, players would be incentivised to upgrade existing cards over trying to expand their collection as this would slow down upgrade progression. why spent 10 bfp on cards if you can upgrade 10 cards by one level and be more competetive instead? What if you are a new player and screwed yourself over as you didn't realise this?

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1 hour ago, LagOps said:

I really think we should stick with gold and bfp; one tradeable and one untradeable.

The main reasons for this are multiaccounting and new player experience:

the npe in the old battleforge was pretty bad. you were stuck with starter cards and no gold etc. for upgrades. For the new skylords reborn, you could start with a lot of gold and 4x all starter cards (you can get them 4x anyways with multiaccounting and players will use that if you give them upgrade currency but no cards for charges) and so you could upgrade and charge a basic deck to some extend. this way, you could play pve, and maybe even pvp, without being a total liability to your team. Alternatively you could try to get bfp while saving some of your gold if you have a specific deck you want to transition to early on. Gold gives you choice in how you advance in the game with cards that you allready own and bfp allows you to aquire more cards.

If you only had one currency, you couldn't be given any of it at the start of the game due to multiaccounting=free money. of course with gold+bfp you could still do dayly quests on multiple accounts, but your main account only has limited amounts of gold. While you could get many costly cards, you still wouldn't be able to upgrade them without playing on your main account (especially since rare cards need more gold to upgrade). While this doesn't get rid of multiaccounting entirely (this is hard to do in an open economy) it at least disincentivizes it to a certain extend.

Additionally having only one currency and taking the importance of upgrades and charges into account, players would be incentivised to upgrade existing cards over trying to expand their collection as this would slow down upgrade progression. why spent 10 bfp on cards if you can upgrade 10 cards by one level and be more competetive instead? What if you are a new player and screwed yourself over as you didn't realise this?

i dont rly like this game to be easy to get most cards and bfp... i want it hard and spend lot time to get cards no just everyone have same cards.. :S

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@BFlove123 I am not sure where you are getting this from. I suggest keeping both currencies to promote deck diversity and deck viability for new players. How hard it will be to progress afterwards depends on how much bfp and gold players gain while playing. I just want the new player experience not to suck while not affecting the long term progression.

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2 hours ago, LagOps said:

@BFlove123 I am not sure where you are getting this from. I suggest keeping both currencies to promote deck diversity and deck viability for new players. How hard it will be to progress afterwards depends on how much bfp and gold players gain while playing. I just want the new player experience not to suck while not affecting the long term progression.

y that depends on player but..make the rewards low so we have something to fight for xd not to get things easy just sayin man i didnt say u made it like that just saying how i want it nothing more

 

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15 hours ago, nielsjuh33 said:

I'm copying this from another post as I've lost track of what discussion is occurring where because the topics are so old, that post is Here.

 

Considering the new player expedience:

Can't you just give new player extra untradable cards for daily quests? Make them fixed and non random such that after a period of time they'll be guaranteed to be able to build semi decent decks.

This way:

1. New players are insentivised to keep playing for longer time, opposed to just getting everything right away and burning out.

2. Old players are insentivised to play with new players as they'll have semi decent decks.

3. You don't encourage multi accounts as the cards are untradable

4. It's fair for everyone as everyone got these cards when they started

5. You don't have to cap the gain per day as the "help new player" program is semi time bound, this rewards both new and old people for playing the game at their own pace, for their own enjoyment.

6. It insentivises new players to play less but consistently as the "big gains" are time bound. This prevents burnouts and keeps they around for the long run.

 

 

Wow this went far away from the topic. We all went off topic, yes. I do not really understand your suggestion. It more sounds like you want to discuss the starting cards which was a diffrent thread, this one here or what the daily quest/reward would be, click here. To make it short we will all start with the same cards, the old starter deck if i remember correctly. The daily reward is needed because that will be the way BFP will be gained to buy boosters. And to choose in advance which card your reward will be sounds boring.

To 1.) you wont have all cards from the beginning.

To 2.) And why do you think there is a special programm needed? When i was a noob i was frequently in teams with better players who helped me finished missions when i was not able to do it because i played on hard e.g., because you usually opened or joined a group for the map you wanted to play. I guess it won't be diffrent.

To 3.) I can't remember what the decision was and couldn't find it, if the starting deck would already have 3 more copies of the cards to avoid multiaccounting.

To 4.) It already is.

To 5.+6.) After you have chosen cards will they be unlocked by playing time or just time? And why you want new players to play less?

Edited by bazzacah

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Quoting myself from another thread :

25 minutes ago, Gnougnou said:

What about gold allowing you to buy a booster for BF incomes ? Like with X gold you can purchase something that gives you 25% more BF on your daily quests and/or winning incomes for a certain duration ? That would allow people to grind gold and then decides between getting some extra BF indirectly if they need cards, or upgrading those cards. That would give gold even more uses.

Topic is old, so I dunno if incomes have been fixed by now.

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3 hours ago, Kubik said:

"fixed"? :thinking:

Fixed as in definitive. As the thread is old, maybe you guys have already decided how it will be at release, which amount, etc...

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Hello guys, I would like to revive this discussion about gold and upgrades.

My experience in this Skylords game:

Played a couple of days when it launched (because couldn't stand at hard logins and crashes) and now - 5 last days.

I now have fully upgraded (except for charge upgrades which isn't always that useful and considers BFP and not gold) Nature - Frost deck, which includes Shaman, Coldsnap, Grimvine, Promo Grinder (without any multiaccounting).

My experience in EA's Battleforge:

Started actively playing more than a year before and till the shutdown. I did spend some money to get some cards and was having very similar deck like I have now. But my deck even after a year of playing was never fully upgraded (regarding normal upgrades).

Back then it was worth playing PVE and there were more players at PVE than rPVE. Now, it is so fast to upgrade a deck - rPVE 9 lvl gives about 4 500 gold and the upgrades for a rare card cost (1) - 1 000 (+400 to upgrade) gold, (2) - 2 500 (+1 000 to upgrade), (3) - 7 500 (+3 000 to upgrade). So, to get a fully upgraded Rare card, you need 15 400 gold. You can make that in 4 rPVE 9 difficulty games (~18 000 gold), which takes 4x20 min = 80 min. I am not even talking about common and uncommon cards.

Ultra Rare cards are trickier, because you need a high level to upgrade them. But still, your deck at start will rarely have any Ultra Rare cards because they are limited by boosters and BFP.

So, in my opinion, farming gold in rPVE is way too fast to upgrade cards. That being said, PVE seems like unrewarding and useless to play as you have to play for about 30 to 60 min (depending on map) to get 1 to 4 upgrades of random cards, starting with Standard difficulty for first upgrade, Advanced for second and lastly Expert for third. All in all, you will take 90 to 180 min (depending on map) if you are lucky to get needed upgrades at the first time, to get all upgrades for 1 card - this includes not only Rare and Ultra Rare cards, but also Common and Uncommon which you can fully upgrade after 1-2 runs of rPVE 9 level. I even heard, that speedrunning specific maps is even more profitable, but never tried that as it requires a specific deck. 

As far as I remember the old Battleforge, it had more players in PVE than rPVE. Here, as far as I know, people go to PVE mainly for quests or solo speedruns.

Conclusion

I would suggest decreasing gold received in PVE and rPVE so playing PVE would feel rewarding for those card upgrades. Current upgrade system shortens the life of the game and discourages increased playtime.

Getting good cards should be challenging (or lucky). Getting these cards even better should be even more challenging - by getting a card, you unlock it's properties for use, so that is sort of an "achievement"; making it's properties work better should be a harder achievement focused to more like an end game. Now I came to the end game and not really sure what should I do next except for waiting for next day to complete quests and hope to get better cards to modify my deck (and using gold to upgrade cards that I don't currently use). And all in all I was playing for about couple of weeks. As I compared above, I couldn't achieve that much during more than a year in EA's Battleforge while considering upgrades were always free to play content.

P. S. I think it is tempting to get best cards and all upgrades ASAP. But it isn't how Battleforge worked and it isn't how any other long-living game works. I think all the PVP players pushed this upgrade system to this point because they don't like playing PVE. But currently I see PVP being played much less than other game modes.

My deck.png

Edited by MenTos

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@MenTos Right now you can select Reward Mode Assign in PvE Campaigns to afterward disenchant the granted upgrades directly into gold. This way Campaign on Expert is way more profitable than RPvE as you can get up to 14000 Gold for just 1 Run, which sometimes does not even take 3 minutes ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M54qssuYV2E ). Less difficult strategies are available too. The Guns of Lyr, for instance, yields roughly 10k gold on avergae for 10 minutes gameplay and is a very secure and easy way to get Gold (Guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NmzbwdhGl0 ). 

Edited by LEBOVIN
Ponni likes this

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On 2/5/2020 at 9:53 PM, MenTos said:

P. S. I think it is tempting to get best cards and all upgrades ASAP. But it isn't how Battleforge worked and it isn't how any other long-living game works. I think all the PVP players pushed this upgrade system to this point because they don't like playing PVE. But currently I see PVP being played much less than other game modes.

My deck.png

I am not sure I agree with your comments on how this game was played and how it is played. First, it has been pointed out in several threads before that this is a test phase and with that it seems a lot of players are right now waiting for the game to be launched. So, number of players playing PvE campaign maps are less for other reasons I would say (possibly the same then for PvP).

Also, back in the days (before the release of addtional gold rewards, if I remember it correctly) it was a pain to get upgrades. If you were unlucky you could play a map an insane amount of times without getting the upgrade you longed for. That was heavily debated then and EA Phenomic finally decided to increase the gold you could get by playing maps and pvp (and the introduction of rpve?) to be able to use it to unlock upgrades. (Again this is how I recall it, but it was a long time ago...)

Furthermore, I don't really understand this one deck discussion...I have 60+ decks right now, each deck built with a purpose. They contain numerous cards, some for fun and some for real heavy business. For example, I have like 5 decks for Crusade alone, one for solo standard and advanced, one for solo expert speedrun, one for duo expert speedrun, one for expert fun, etc. Game doesn't stop once you have completed a deck or even when you collected all cards. To me thats is when the game starts.

Considering the PvP aspect of the of the game, which I do not play because I truly suck at it..., forcing those guys into playing PVE is to me not the way to go and same of course the other way around. I think people should be able to play, with good access to cards and upgrades, whatever they want to play. 

When it comes to long-living games then...I have been playing this game since the release back in 2009 or so...so counting from then I have played this game for a long time. There was a hickup for a few years but that was sorted out by some brave and bold people and now it is back. So, if this is not long-living I am not sure what is.

// Ponni

Edit: Hmm, deck count now is 96...this includes two decks for my kids to play around with in the Forge. Apparently it is fun to see Bandit Lancers spawned get tossed around by Worldbreaker Gun and various dragons...when thinking of it, Yes it is fun! :D

Edited by Ponni
typo

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