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MrXLink

Current Proposal: Rewards

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Since I have no access to the game atm an I m bored, I say my opinion on this. Plus some future thoughts. There are different type of players, as stated before in another post.

Collectors will stop play after they collected  all there is to collect. (All cards and maybe play through campaign). It may be after 3 month or 1 year. Most of the old players back in the days were collectors. I guess 80 %. 

Now is the reborn project I guess 90 % of who plays now is hardcore Bf Fan and a veteran from back in the days. So atm collectors maybe only 10 %. 

Pvp players will play as long as it is interesting to play Pvp. I see some problems. The entrence for new Pvp players is high cause the game needs to aquire a lot new players to make Pvp sustainable. There are atm maybe I guess 50 Pvp players playing online at one time and 30 of them are high elo. So if u matchmake for a game. U maybe u get 1 or 2 easy enemy's and then one of the endboss rank top 10 players. Even back in the day this was a problem. Now with much less active Pvp players its worse I guess. I don't know how interesting it is for the top 100 Pvp players to play vs each other over and over again.(top100 Pvp players I summon you ^^) I guess less a problem then for me a noob Pvp. If I play 5 x and loose vs the same top 10 player I have enough. I want play and improove vs similar elo players. This is not a problem of matchmaking but of the less number of players. Fact is real Pvp playing starts if everybody has a charged deck. 

At some point speedrunners will need new Maps to speedrun (that are in the ingame leaderbord) . Or speedrun only rpve. 

And guess what... 

Communitymapsplayers until now 1% of the players cause atm no loot. But if they got loot as planed in future the number will rise. IMHO the future of Bf cause its possibly unlimmited content. I allready back in the days got so bored by the official content that I started make my own maps. What would have been warcraft 3 without custom maps. I still have it on my pc. I just say towerdefence and Dota. Bf has a Powerfull Editor too. After all important things is done devs should focus on make something to make creating communitymaps more accseseble. Like make some scripting tutorials. 

So my opinion. Give me all cards make them all u3 and I will continue where I left of. Create and play new maps. BTW create a map and beta test is fun too. 

But ofc I respect the desition of the devs to reset the game.I was warned so I can't complain now. The achievementsytem also now is not installed and manny allready have all cards. So I not want your work on that to be for nothing.

=> 

Pls just make achievements creative so I not have to play Soultree cause it's the fastest map. (not "finish one mission" ) 

More like achievements u can solve on every map and even communitymaps same efficient. (This is super important) 

F. E. (not know if these are realizeble) 

"play 30 shamans" 

"make 10000 damage with spells" 

 

Kind Regards 

Navarr likes this

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"90 % of who plays now is hardcore" not true, over 20% did not play the game before

"I guess 50 Pvp players playing online at one time" your guess is wrong :( it is much worse if there are 3 players searching for match in one hour (not at same time) then that hour is above average for PvP :( so the conclusion is correct for this part :( 

"At some point speedrunners will need new Maps to speedrun" in combination with other factors, they already improving old times by a lot. But it is planned to add new community maps to official list.

 "Communitymapsplayers until now 1% of the players cause atm no loot." not true :) it is actually over 3% of matches, not much better, but better. "no loot" is a problem to determinate automatically because you can create so easy maps that would give so big rewards. The current plan is to review maps manually and add them to official list.

"So my opinion. Give me all cards make them all u3" if we give all players all cards, what will be the point of boosters, rewards, etc? It will be only competitive game? If the team ever chose to do that I will left, because I do not like that kind of games :P 

"achievementsytem" read and maybe add suggestions here:

"play 30 shamans" sounds bad, because not everyone have shaman :P 

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I feel I got real close with my % numbers for its pure guess. But Thx for tell me the exact numbers it's interesting. 

50 players I meant all those who are in a pvp game and those who are searching for a pvp game at the same time. But the conclusion is the same. I hope there will come lots of new players though. 

Maybe if some event got streamed it will draw attention. Could u take some of the patreon money to make a Tournament with real price money after release?

Anyway interesting how much attention to Bf reborn will EA tolerate. I think if reborn has 20000 players it's no problem. But should it become viral and become verry popular Ea will be "interested" . 

 

I plan to polish up my old maps little bit up. Make them little bit more nice and add some comfort things. So I can after servers are stable suggest them for you to consider make them official. Some are really solid allready. 

 

Kind Regards 

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If I understand it correctly we can no use money for the prizes, but not really sure about it :thinking: @MrXLink probably know more.

We already have more than 20000 players :) 

We did not not have internal discussion about the review format, but I think you can create a topic somewhere on the forum and let community know  about your map being available in game (for that you would need to re-upload it every day or two, because of server crashes :( ). When we get to point when we will be discussing that I will be for some kind of community review process :) so your map(s) may already be "validated" when you submit them for official review :) 

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From a competitive side a slower grind would be a problematic aspect for the game.

Right now I want to talk specificely about the huge entrance barrier for PvP as I'm not as experienced at the competitive PvE aspect as some other guys here in this discussion. 

In order to start playing PvP on a competitive level you need at least 1 upgraded and nearly fully charged deck. Otherwise you are at a clear disadvantage, as nearly every single upgrade changes trading patterns. Witthout upgrades you can not use your charge upgrades aswell which simply weakens your late game capabilities by alot.

 

I will start with Lost Souls because it is very popular and one of the cheapest decks. 

8*4 Common Cards 

4*4 Uncommon Cards

8*4-3 Rare Cards (Motivate charges are unneccessary)

0 ultra rare cards (There is Mountaineer, but 4 mounties are more expensive than the entire deck and you can play without him)

Keep in mind that these are specific cards and more than 80 percent need to be obtained through the market. I can't drop an exact bfp number here as the market is way to inconsistent, but from experience it takes about 5-6 weeks  to get these cards for an average player. Without these cards you will be unable to compete with serious intentions. If this time window would be even greater after the reset, it would be a serious hit for the PvP scene. A new player would be forced to compete with hardcore players, who are the ones that invest the needed time to get their cards and upgrades asap. Less cards, less upgrades and less experience create a very frustrating triple disadvantage. 

 

Something else I want to talk about is the amount of rewards you get for playing PvP. The current gains are worse compared to the token system. Back then you got honor tokens for each victory, that were somewhat valuable for upgrades as rPvE mostly gave you Battle Tokens. Sorry for being a little harsh here, but right now the amount of gold you get in PvP is just useless. 

In order to upgrade the Shadow Frost deck I mentioned above, you need 168.000 gold. 

I'm not sure about the maximum value for PvP gold gains, is it 5000 or 6000? (I will show potential grinding times for both values, both are equally low)

The god lvl PvP player, that has a 100% wr and plays PvP in a world without que times and loading screens gains 5000 (6000) gold/h.

To gain a fully upgraded Shadow Frost deck this means 36 (28) hours of straight PvP gameplay. 

To be more realistic: The average PvP player has a 50% winrate and has about 20% playtime loss due to que times and loading screens (something like 10 minutes playtime, 3 minutes loading/searching). This reduces the gold/h to 2800 (3360). 

To gain a fully upgraded Shadow Frost deck this means 60 (50) hours of straight PvP gameplay. Trying to upgrade something like that is atrocious. And keep in mind that alot of other decks like pure Fire require even more gold (246.000) to get upgraded. If this is your first PvP deck you will be forced to play with a competitive disadvantage during that time as everyone else will just farm PvE and get a serious upgrade advantage

Just in comparision: An average PvE player can still go for 4player rPvE 9 in order to farm gold and do 3 rounds in an hour which equals 12.000 gold/h. A very good cPvE speedrun player can get waaaay more. 

If you are here in the game to play PvP, you will be forced to invest gold, bfp and alot of time into PvE even if you are not interested in the game mode. 

 

 

 

 

Navarr likes this

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Finally something I can agree with. (gold for PvP)

Last time I mentioned this to MrXLink he said that I have more important things to do than optimizing rewards (agreed :( ), and he was happy with his numbers, because on paper they really seem higher than rPvE 9 4p, but if you check real results, fist problem is most of the time there is less than 2 players interested in ranked PvP at same time, which makes waiting times insane.

But whole you need 20 cards fully charged bla bla bla... I can not agree with that because if there will be more players, there will also be more players without upgrades, generally they will have lover ELO which would mean they would fight against other player with lower ELO. If you need 20 cards in deck for super PRO tournament fine, but I never used more than 5 cards for PvP, and they was not even fully charged :P which totally ruin you calculation about "entry price".

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1 hour ago, RadicalX said:

A new player would be forced to compete with hardcore players, who are the ones that invest the needed time to get their cards and upgrades asap. Less cards, less upgrades and less experience create a very frustrating triple disadvantage. 

U would beat me too if I have 120 deck and u play only icebarriers. 

🤣

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4 hours ago, Kubik said:

But whole you need 20 cards fully charged bla bla bla... I can not agree with that because if there will be more players, there will also be more players without upgrades, generally they will have lover ELO which would mean they would fight against other player with lower ELO. If you need 20 cards in deck for super PRO tournament fine, but I never used more than 5 cards for PvP, and they was not even fully charged :P which totally ruin you calculation about "entry price".

If everyone had the same deck, I would agree with you. But in reality, every player's deck is different. In a game that is balanced around u3 fully charged decks, noobs and pros will face matchups they can not possibly win just because of the cards played. This would be extremely toxic and frustrating for everyone, thus it's recommended to only play PvP with a fully upgraded and charged deck.

Edit: Tournaments are also very important for the PvP community so it'd be great if we don't have to wait 2-3 months again after the next reset to have non-toxic tournaments.

Edited by Navarr

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