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MrXLink

Current Proposal: Rewards

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Since I have no access to the game atm an I m bored, I say my opinion on this. Plus some future thoughts. There are different type of players, as stated before in another post.

Collectors will stop play after they collected  all there is to collect. (All cards and maybe play through campaign). It may be after 3 month or 1 year. Most of the old players back in the days were collectors. I guess 80 %. 

Now is the reborn project I guess 90 % of who plays now is hardcore Bf Fan and a veteran from back in the days. So atm collectors maybe only 10 %. 

Pvp players will play as long as it is interesting to play Pvp. I see some problems. The entrence for new Pvp players is high cause the game needs to aquire a lot new players to make Pvp sustainable. There are atm maybe I guess 50 Pvp players playing online at one time and 30 of them are high elo. So if u matchmake for a game. U maybe u get 1 or 2 easy enemy's and then one of the endboss rank top 10 players. Even back in the day this was a problem. Now with much less active Pvp players its worse I guess. I don't know how interesting it is for the top 100 Pvp players to play vs each other over and over again.(top100 Pvp players I summon you ^^) I guess less a problem then for me a noob Pvp. If I play 5 x and loose vs the same top 10 player I have enough. I want play and improove vs similar elo players. This is not a problem of matchmaking but of the less number of players. Fact is real Pvp playing starts if everybody has a charged deck. 

At some point speedrunners will need new Maps to speedrun (that are in the ingame leaderbord) . Or speedrun only rpve. 

And guess what... 

Communitymapsplayers until now 1% of the players cause atm no loot. But if they got loot as planed in future the number will rise. IMHO the future of Bf cause its possibly unlimmited content. I allready back in the days got so bored by the official content that I started make my own maps. What would have been warcraft 3 without custom maps. I still have it on my pc. I just say towerdefence and Dota. Bf has a Powerfull Editor too. After all important things is done devs should focus on make something to make creating communitymaps more accseseble. Like make some scripting tutorials. 

So my opinion. Give me all cards make them all u3 and I will continue where I left of. Create and play new maps. BTW create a map and beta test is fun too. 

But ofc I respect the desition of the devs to reset the game.I was warned so I can't complain now. The achievementsytem also now is not installed and manny allready have all cards. So I not want your work on that to be for nothing.

=> 

Pls just make achievements creative so I not have to play Soultree cause it's the fastest map. (not "finish one mission" ) 

More like achievements u can solve on every map and even communitymaps same efficient. (This is super important) 

F. E. (not know if these are realizeble) 

"play 30 shamans" 

"make 10000 damage with spells" 

 

Kind Regards 

Navarr likes this

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"90 % of who plays now is hardcore" not true, over 20% did not play the game before

"I guess 50 Pvp players playing online at one time" your guess is wrong :( it is much worse if there are 3 players searching for match in one hour (not at same time) then that hour is above average for PvP :( so the conclusion is correct for this part :( 

"At some point speedrunners will need new Maps to speedrun" in combination with other factors, they already improving old times by a lot. But it is planned to add new community maps to official list.

 "Communitymapsplayers until now 1% of the players cause atm no loot." not true :) it is actually over 3% of matches, not much better, but better. "no loot" is a problem to determinate automatically because you can create so easy maps that would give so big rewards. The current plan is to review maps manually and add them to official list.

"So my opinion. Give me all cards make them all u3" if we give all players all cards, what will be the point of boosters, rewards, etc? It will be only competitive game? If the team ever chose to do that I will left, because I do not like that kind of games :P 

"achievementsytem" read and maybe add suggestions here:

"play 30 shamans" sounds bad, because not everyone have shaman :P 

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I feel I got real close with my % numbers for its pure guess. But Thx for tell me the exact numbers it's interesting. 

50 players I meant all those who are in a pvp game and those who are searching for a pvp game at the same time. But the conclusion is the same. I hope there will come lots of new players though. 

Maybe if some event got streamed it will draw attention. Could u take some of the patreon money to make a Tournament with real price money after release?

Anyway interesting how much attention to Bf reborn will EA tolerate. I think if reborn has 20000 players it's no problem. But should it become viral and become verry popular Ea will be "interested" . 

 

I plan to polish up my old maps little bit up. Make them little bit more nice and add some comfort things. So I can after servers are stable suggest them for you to consider make them official. Some are really solid allready. 

 

Kind Regards 

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If I understand it correctly we can no use money for the prizes, but not really sure about it :thinking: @MrXLink probably know more.

We already have more than 20000 players :) 

We did not not have internal discussion about the review format, but I think you can create a topic somewhere on the forum and let community know  about your map being available in game (for that you would need to re-upload it every day or two, because of server crashes :( ). When we get to point when we will be discussing that I will be for some kind of community review process :) so your map(s) may already be "validated" when you submit them for official review :) 

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From a competitive side a slower grind would be a problematic aspect for the game.

Right now I want to talk specificely about the huge entrance barrier for PvP as I'm not as experienced at the competitive PvE aspect as some other guys here in this discussion. 

In order to start playing PvP on a competitive level you need at least 1 upgraded and nearly fully charged deck. Otherwise you are at a clear disadvantage, as nearly every single upgrade changes trading patterns. Witthout upgrades you can not use your charge upgrades aswell which simply weakens your late game capabilities by alot.

 

I will start with Lost Souls because it is very popular and one of the cheapest decks. 

8*4 Common Cards 

4*4 Uncommon Cards

8*4-3 Rare Cards (Motivate charges are unneccessary)

0 ultra rare cards (There is Mountaineer, but 4 mounties are more expensive than the entire deck and you can play without him)

Keep in mind that these are specific cards and more than 80 percent need to be obtained through the market. I can't drop an exact bfp number here as the market is way to inconsistent, but from experience it takes about 5-6 weeks  to get these cards for an average player. Without these cards you will be unable to compete with serious intentions. If this time window would be even greater after the reset, it would be a serious hit for the PvP scene. A new player would be forced to compete with hardcore players, who are the ones that invest the needed time to get their cards and upgrades asap. Less cards, less upgrades and less experience create a very frustrating triple disadvantage. 

 

Something else I want to talk about is the amount of rewards you get for playing PvP. The current gains are worse compared to the token system. Back then you got honor tokens for each victory, that were somewhat valuable for upgrades as rPvE mostly gave you Battle Tokens. Sorry for being a little harsh here, but right now the amount of gold you get in PvP is just useless. 

In order to upgrade the Shadow Frost deck I mentioned above, you need 168.000 gold. 

I'm not sure about the maximum value for PvP gold gains, is it 5000 or 6000? (I will show potential grinding times for both values, both are equally low)

The god lvl PvP player, that has a 100% wr and plays PvP in a world without que times and loading screens gains 5000 (6000) gold/h.

To gain a fully upgraded Shadow Frost deck this means 36 (28) hours of straight PvP gameplay. 

To be more realistic: The average PvP player has a 50% winrate and has about 20% playtime loss due to que times and loading screens (something like 10 minutes playtime, 3 minutes loading/searching). This reduces the gold/h to 2800 (3360). 

To gain a fully upgraded Shadow Frost deck this means 60 (50) hours of straight PvP gameplay. Trying to upgrade something like that is atrocious. And keep in mind that alot of other decks like pure Fire require even more gold (246.000) to get upgraded. If this is your first PvP deck you will be forced to play with a competitive disadvantage during that time as everyone else will just farm PvE and get a serious upgrade advantage

Just in comparision: An average PvE player can still go for 4player rPvE 9 in order to farm gold and do 3 rounds in an hour which equals 12.000 gold/h. A very good cPvE speedrun player can get waaaay more. 

If you are here in the game to play PvP, you will be forced to invest gold, bfp and alot of time into PvE even if you are not interested in the game mode. 

 

 

 

 

Navarr likes this

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Finally something I can agree with. (gold for PvP)

Last time I mentioned this to MrXLink he said that I have more important things to do than optimizing rewards (agreed :( ), and he was happy with his numbers, because on paper they really seem higher than rPvE 9 4p, but if you check real results, fist problem is most of the time there is less than 2 players interested in ranked PvP at same time, which makes waiting times insane.

But whole you need 20 cards fully charged bla bla bla... I can not agree with that because if there will be more players, there will also be more players without upgrades, generally they will have lover ELO which would mean they would fight against other player with lower ELO. If you need 20 cards in deck for super PRO tournament fine, but I never used more than 5 cards for PvP, and they was not even fully charged :P which totally ruin you calculation about "entry price".

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1 hour ago, RadicalX said:

A new player would be forced to compete with hardcore players, who are the ones that invest the needed time to get their cards and upgrades asap. Less cards, less upgrades and less experience create a very frustrating triple disadvantage. 

U would beat me too if I have 120 deck and u play only icebarriers. 

?

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4 hours ago, Kubik said:

But whole you need 20 cards fully charged bla bla bla... I can not agree with that because if there will be more players, there will also be more players without upgrades, generally they will have lover ELO which would mean they would fight against other player with lower ELO. If you need 20 cards in deck for super PRO tournament fine, but I never used more than 5 cards for PvP, and they was not even fully charged :P which totally ruin you calculation about "entry price".

If everyone had the same deck, I would agree with you. But in reality, every player's deck is different. In a game that is balanced around u3 fully charged decks, noobs and pros will face matchups they can not possibly win just because of the cards played. This would be extremely toxic and frustrating for everyone, thus it's recommended to only play PvP with a fully upgraded and charged deck.

Edit: Tournaments are also very important for the PvP community so it'd be great if we don't have to wait 2-3 months again after the next reset to have non-toxic tournaments.

Edited by Navarr

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Btw maybe it would be a good idea if we think about the current relative value of bfp compared to boosters. When every play gets 150 bfp and 1 booster thats worth ~450 bfp, how does the value of bfp change in relation to the cards? Is this effect being exaggerated by multi accounting? How could we solve the worth of bfp relative to boosters?

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Hello fellow players and Dear Devs

I was wondering about BF Gold and the cycle of the game it self.

I have a question for you people.

What would you pick ?    Having BF earn it slowely and collect all the cards in years taking your time?   Or   Would you rather be able to spend gold on  packs  "but your collection would reset every month"?   So my real question is Would the players enjoy Gacha game more or a competitive game rewarding time investment?

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I'm not sure about the "earning BF every 30m, halves every 1h30" thing. 30mn sounds like a lot, and I would rather have half the amount, but every 15mn. It gives a better feeling of constant progression and will allow people to take a break between games to look at the market.

But in overall, I would prefer a system based on victories. Something scaled on the level you are playing on. For instance :

  • RPVE : From 1-6, no BF reward. From 7-10, scaling, taking into account difficulty and number of players.
  • PVP : Even tho' i almost never did PVP, I would fully agree on making PVP the best way to earn BF. BF amount would scale based on your elo : the better you are, obviously the better your enemies are, so the match might be harder and more stressful than a rpve or mission.
  • Mission : Like rPVE, easy difficulty won't get you any BF. Intermediate and expert level will increase the amount of BF earned.

It could have a soft cap applied to it too.

Also, what about gold allowing you to buy a booster for BF incomes ? Like with X gold you can purchase something that gives you 25% more BF on your daily quests and/or winning incomes for a certain duration ? That would allow people to grind gold and then decides between getting some extra BF indirectly if they need cards, or upgrading those cards. That would give gold even more uses.

Edited by Gnougnou

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On 6/13/2019 at 11:17 PM, Gnougnou said:

I'm not sure about the "earning BF every 30m, halves every 1h30" thing. 30mn sounds like a lot, and I would rather have half the amount, but every 15mn. It gives a better feeling of constant progression and will allow people to take a break between games to look at the market.

But in overall, I would prefer a system based on victories. Something scaled on the level you are playing on. For instance :

  • RPVE : From 1-6, no BF reward. From 7-10, scaling, taking into account difficulty and number of players.
  • PVP : Even tho' i almost never did PVP, I would fully agree on making PVP the best way to earn BF. BF amount would scale based on your elo : the better you are, obviously the better your enemies are, so the match might be harder and more stressful than a rpve or mission.
  • Mission : Like rPVE, easy difficulty won't get you any BF. Intermediate and expert level will increase the amount of BF earned.

It could have a soft cap applied to it too.

 

I think the idea is a good approach.

PVP:

Although I seldom play PVP myself.

To raise the value of PVP games, you could get a daily payout from BFP. The higher you are in the rating, the more you get. Maybe for 1st place then 100 BFP and then down for every 10 places 2 BFP less. Although I think it's important that you at least always get a certain amount, even at number 1000. So that even low elo players receive something and have an incentive to play up.

I had read somewhere here that the prices, as well as rewards should be raised, so you get a little more diversity. This would be even better for PVP rewards, as you will receive 1.000 BFP for 1st place and then less and less.

(r/c) PVE

For PVE, you could set a daily limit on how much BFP you can get in PVE games.
As a prerequisite, you would have to play a number of minutes and no number of games, so no games arise that only go for 3 minutes.
1 BFP per minute, maximum 50, so that PVP will be rewarded a little more, because theoretically PVE can simply be farmed off and you can already get the gold here.

But I find it difficult here, as this already overlaps with the daily quests.

OR:

Or just take out the daily quests and take the PVP and PVE rewards as described above. So both types of players would be picked up for both types of play.

 

My personal opinion is that more players would come to the game through the PVP, as at the present time, simply the PVP is more prevalent overall and much more is shown on public media like Youtube or Twitch.

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2 hours ago, LEBOVIN said:

If u propose to distribute rewards based on ranking in pvp why not do that in pve aswell :P

For Speedrunner?
In fact, I believe that this only leads to how to win a certain game as quickly as possible. And this strategy is copied by everyone and everyone is trying to be as fast as possible with this strategy.

In my opinion, innovation is missing here.
You could set the best times to zero every week, but then it would be the same again.

I think it should stay with pure PVE quests and PVP daily rewards according to current rank.

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Right now you can play new strategies and get no special reward for it. Why is innovation missing if there IS an incentive to improve the strategy?

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16 hours ago, LEBOVIN said:

Right now you can play new strategies and get no special reward for it. Why is innovation missing if there IS an incentive to improve the strategy?

 

I suspect that this will be missing in most players, most will watch only a Youtube video to recreate the fastest speedrun and copy this.

Ok, I have to admit that I have no idea what's so good about Speedruns. This is a world that has not yet opened up to me. But I also understand that it has an essential part in Battleforge.

So based on the leaderboard you can make a weekly payout. Weekly, so you have enough time to beat the best. The reward might have to be a bit bigger, since there is only one per week.

In fact, I would also try to get at least a little bit up in the leaderboard. What I still miss, is the incentive to play with other players PVE.

 

Sorry for dropping off the topic.

But right now, I'm thinking about which areas Battleforge serves, which should be promoted or rewarded.

PVP -> Daily Rewards

Speedruns -> Weekly Rewards

rPVE -> Time Played with other Players? (To get more games together with other players)

cPVE -> Same?

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Hey,

I've been playing for a while now and there is something I noticed about the daily quests:

Most of them are doable fairly well with a basic deck. Collect gold chests, do PvP, win a campaign, play a campaign with others. They are all doing pretty well.

The one that stands out is "Do 2 rPvE Maps on difficulty 6 or higher". If you don't have the best cards yet, you loose on difficulty 6 more often than not. This can lead to several hours of playtime for this one quest. The jump from rPvE diffculty 5 to 6 is enormous. Maybe set the quest to "difficulty 5 or higher?". This way, it's still a challenge, but becomes doable for new players.

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You can just reroll that quest.

Or keep it and not fulfill it, given that you did all other quests that day, you will still get 2 new quests next day and that way avoid to ever get the quest again!

Edited by LEBOVIN

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Hey Fellas!

First post from me :) , lately i have the problem that i don't find PVP enemy's , and that´s Because none plays it. I don't want to spread negativity or anything close to that. But even if i see an open lobby that isn't from like the 10 PVP players that actually play active, it´s "i just want to finish the PVP quest ASAP"-guys.

I think For the Reward you should not get gold, because when you play PVP you already need a pretty good deck and there is a high possibility that you already have everything on U3.

Now my Idea , if you Win a PVP game (on a certain Rank or Deck-lvl ,min game length 7,5 minutes so Smurfers cant abuse it, too hard)  you get a  booster (that contains 1 card, like in ol´ BF) with the difference it also has a 10% chance of being a Rare / Ultra-Rare and maybe 0,XX% of being a promo. Next point would be that some promo you get from "normal"booster other only from PvP boosters.  Also maybe remove the PvP quest, and make all quests kinda Pve relevant, you you ether can play pvp to get your stuff together or pve :D

That maybe would make it worth to play pvp, even if its just a small reward its a reward that you only can get with playing PvP.

(If someone wants to play pvp im on the discord like all the time <3 )

Sorry for my terrible English

Edit: spelling

 

Edited by Gravitas

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To be honest I... HATE quests based on PVP matches. Always rerolling. I don't play pvp and most people I meet don't play pvp.

 

Also quests should be based on certain maps. For example: "Kill Brannoc at Titans map" or "Kill Rock Giant at Bad Harvest map".

Mynoduesp likes this

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Posted (edited)
On 8/13/2020 at 10:50 AM, LEBOVIN said:

I think what you are suggesting is a bit too specific for quests , but is good material for achievements.

Thats the point. People would be forced to play specific maps for quests. There are a lot of people who finished campaign only to have access to all maps and didn't touch them for months. This would help to keep people play longer instead of getting bored with game and dumping it after few weeks.

Edited by Belormoroth

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Posted (edited)

I really like the specific quest idea. I often find myself wondering what map I should play, nothing is good nothing is bad. If the quest tells me to smash x amount of twilight squads, i know i'll play GoL. If it tells me Jorne needs another beating, i head on to BH. I'm overreacting, but you get the point... It would feel like your quest actualy matters.

should have posted this in the right forum though... sry 'bout that.

Edited by Mynoduesp

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Mynoduesp said:

should have posted this in the right forum though... sry 'bout that.

Yea i will make new topic. It was fast hit of suggestion but might actually work.

 

Edit: Nvm... Something similar is already here: 

 

Edited by Belormoroth

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