MrDanilov

Well, I don't think it is too strong. You just need to know what to do against it.
Some suggestions:
Shadow/Frost: Nasty Lyrish
Any Nature Splash: Root/Oink
Any Frost Splash: Freeze
Any Fire Splash: Possibly Eruption/Lavafield
Normally, this strategy played is at least 3 shadow mages + nether warp, which is an insane amount of energy, so you actually can counter it quite well.

To give you an answer to some of your questions and some general information: 
-> The buff gets applied to all units near the entrance zone, the exit zone does not affect units at all
-> There are 2 effects applied by nether warp: Port immunity & the specific healing or slow effect dependend on affinity
-> There is an instant healing tic once the buff gets applied which is the main reason for this interaction
-> The buff refreshes every second always applying this instant tic which doubles the healing speed
-> The max healing per target gets increased from 200 to 960.
Intended healing: Instant starting tick + 4 ticks per 2 seconds (+200 hp over 8 seconds)
Maximum healing: 20 starting ticks (1 per second) + 4 ticks per 2s (+960 hp over 28 seconds) 
The speed is twice as fast, but due to the constant refreshes the duration also gets extended by 20 seconds making the healing even more valuable. 
-> Cards like Incredible Mo or Green dryad suppress the port immunity, but healing is not affected by this 
-> Card descriptions are bad in general. There are so many missing information like damage caps for Shadow spells (even Nether Warp has an unmentioned healing cap). I could probably name more than 100 "Features" in this game that do have an effect onto the overall gameplay.
About the balancing question: In in the current high elo environment a change is not necessary. Lyrish Nasty, Amii Phantom spam, War Eagle scream, Lavafield, Razorshard/Stonetempest are sufficient answers to this specific combo. Pure Nature ends up getting destroyed, but that is more due to the awful T1 conditions. You always lose on tempo unless the enemy makes a mistake early on and Magespam is just really good at snowballing leads. 
The stategy is easy to use, very oppressive and unfun to play against though, so from a mid to low elo standpoint a change could be reasonable. 
 
 

Hello fellow Skylords!
It is time for new warriors to step into the ring and for fresh blood to prove its worth. Who will win the Stress Test Rookies#4?
 
Format?
It will be a 1vs1 Double Elimination best of one tournament, the  finals will be best of 3 (grand final: one match, no reset). Winners and losers finals will be all played on stream.
And it will be without the Top players, this is an opportunity for newer or less experienced players. so please refrain from registering if you...
...have gold rank (fury) or better.
...have more than 65% win rate.
...do not think you qualify as a rookie.
I will personally doublecheck some of the entries.
 
 
Prize Pool! (more participants=>bigger prizes)
1st place  - 1000 + Promo Swampdrake
2nd place - 750 + Amii Monument
3rd place - 500 + Nasty Surprise
4th place - 300 + Grinder
5th-last place - 100BFP
 
 
When?
On 03.11.19 starting on 4pm (CEST, Berlin time), the stream will start about 30 minutes in advance.
 
Where?
In the Sparring grounds, get the community observer maps to enable observers/streaming.
=>LINK<=
Extract the folder to Documents/Battleforge/
 
Organisation?
The tournament brackets will be on Challonge, so register and join the tournament there. Please use your in game account name to make communication and finding your opponent easier.
=>LINK To CHALLONGE<=
The streaming channel that will be covering the tournament is DasToggy on twitch.tv .
In case of problems contact me or one of my mods via Discord or Battleforge.
A list of tournament mods and organizers: DasToggy, Karlmann
 
Rules!
-Disconnection during a game results in a default loss. If both sides agree it is possible to have a remake.
-Not showing up to your match with after 15 minutes results in a default loss. The plan is to play a round of matches every ~30 mins.
-After your match go to Challonge and insert the result. That is done by clicking on your match and selecting the winner/stats . The brackets will be updated automatically.
-The Map Pool is: Haladur, Simai, Wazhai, Elyon, Lajesh, Uro (same pool as in ranked duel). The first match of the round will be played on Haladur, then it is losers choice (if you made it to the finals). Second round will start with Simai, third one... you get the drill.
-As an experiment, no T1 Towers will be allowed in this tournament (Mortar, Phase, Ice shield, Primal Defender). Other supportive stuctures (like Ice barrier) are free to use.
-If your Challonge account name does not match you Battlefield name, please use the "Sign up with an alternative name" feature so we can find/contact you.
 
Reply in this thread if you have questions, I will check it out later.
I would love to see this community grow again and the competitive scene develop aswell. And it is time again to have the rookies put on a show.
 
Best regards,
DasToggy

Hello fellow Skylords!
After a long Summbreak it is time to step into the arena again and prove your battle prowess to all the fellow skylords! Who will win the Stress Test Open#12?
 
Format?
It will be a 1vs1 Double Elimination best of 3 tournament, the grand final will be best of 5 (one match, no reset). Winner and losers finals will be all played on stream.
 
Prize Pool! (The more people participate, the bigger it will get)
1st place  - 1000 BFP + Netherwarp (g)
2nd place - 750 BFP + Colossus
3rd place - 500 BFP + Lost Spirit Ship
4th place - 300 BFP + Juggernaut
5th-last place - 100 BFP
 
 
When?
On 20.10.19  starting on 4pm CEST(Berlin time), the stream will start about 30 minutes in advance.
 
Where?
In the Sparring grounds, get the community observer maps to enable observers/streaming.
=>LINK<=
Extract the folder to Documents/Battleforge/
Important: Due to problems with other observer versions of these maps please clear you mapfolder before extracting the observermaps.
 
Organisation?
The tournament brackets will be on Challonge, so register and join the tournament there. Please use your in game account name to make communication and finding your enemy easier.
=>LINK TO CHALLONGE<=
The streaming channel that will be covering the tournament is DasToggy on twitch.tv .
In case of problems contact me or one of my mods via Discord or Battleforge.
A list of tournament mods and organizers: DasToggy, Karlmann
 
Rules!
-No bugabuse, cheating or insulting the other players. Penalties may vary from a warning to default loss.
-Disconnection during a game results in a default loss. If both sides agree it is possible to have a remake.
-Not showing up to your match with after 15 minutes results in a default loss. The plan is to play a round of matches every ~30 mins.
-After your match go to Challonge and insert the result. That is done by clicking on your match and selecting the winner/stats . The brackets will be updated automatically.
-The Map Pool is: Haladur, Simai, Wazhai, Elyon, Lajesh and Uro (same pool as in ranked duel). The first match of the round will be played on Haladur, then it is losers choice. Second round will start with Simai, third one... you get the drill.
-The brackets for the tournament will be shuffled before the tournament starts.
-As an experiment, no T1 Towers will be allowed in this tournament (Mortar, Phase, Ice shield, Primal Defender). Other supportive stuctures (like Ice barrier) are free to use.
 
 
Reply in this thread if you have questions, I will check it out later.
I would love to see this community grow again and the competitive scene develop aswell.
 
Best regards,
DasToggy

No argumentation? No words  Why am i even giving you my attention.You are absolutely wrong in an balancing discussion. You're pvp rank is: 0.
You can balance your t4 as for example your OP lost spirit ship though in an extra Threadh. I agree to that.

That's not exactly the case with aggressor. It's not conseidered too weak in higher rankings, it's more of a unit with a special task wich can also be done by other units (countering L units). It is used as L counter wich is costly but therefor perma CCs things that could otherwise get annoying for stonekin like skyfire drakes, war eagles, mounties...
Anyway imo the main reason why balancing is impossible for lowranks is that there is no meta. A pure fire deck in higher rankings is mostly the same except 2 or 3 cards. That's just the deckcomposition endless players found out to be the strongest in endless games. Now pure fire in low ranks might be something totally crazy and unefficent, maybe it has T4, maybe it has no spells at all, just 20 units...how are you gonna balance THAT? Players in these ranks don't know about hte countersystem, voidpower, how losing a well or an orb makes you lose power permanently. Once they learn those things they normally move to higher ranks.

Didnt u read my argumentation before Wanky? 
Yes i was an active speedrunner back in the days but again:
 
It does not make any sense to balance speedrunning because you can live with an slower time because you have the same chances.
 
You are ONLY slower after for example an phasetowernerf. Thats all.
Meanwhile Nature t1 only profit in pvp from that nerf so after that nerf and a few tweaks of nature t1 we hopefully can see more nature players.
Its only one example of many.

btw it's quite good balanced.

I know that Lost Spirit Ship spam is only used on BG speedruns.
Over 600 games in 2v2 doesnt say anything. The amount of games you played doesnt say anything. We can organize some 2v2 matches if you want but make sure you have a good mate for you because you would need it big time against tops3cret and me.
In fact i was #1 in 2v2 for a longer time in the original bf.
Also 1v1 isnt the same as 2v2. So your pvp rank is still: 0. So that shows once again that you have no idea about pvp.
But lets go lets play some 2v2. Show me your imba 2v2 skills after your 600 games and your big experience about it ?
 
Its really a shame that this threadh is mainly about the few speedrunners out there which really shouldnt get any attention about balancing. Speedrun is only a implemented side mode after years. There was no single balancing done for speedrun. It should never get balanced. The devs in the old bf knew why. Because it doesnt make any sense.
 
We could balance pvp now, fast and so good.
 
 
I only can appeal to the devs and especially to kubik:
Please continue the common line of the original bf like it was the old devs intentions.
 
Now im out here.

Friend, it's okay when you return in your old game with some new patches.
For example I returned 2 times in Starcraft 2 - and Blizzard even removed some units while I was inactive. Some of their balance changes was huge, but I never saw someone who left the game for this reason. It's even better for the game to have fresh blood in balance and tactic.

Main idea of RTS is to find out winning strategy and improve it. So new players will just try to invent strategy, like it always was in any RTS.
And it's funniest part of all RTS game, much better than microcontroll)
Green nether warp gives constant heal, so Shadow Mage spam+Green Nether warp is really overpowered against Pure Nature and too good against some other decks.

Another reason why we should nerf those cards BEFORE the release. So less people get used to those tricks.
Besides when certain cards are nerfed, then the prices of those cards also fall. Therefore it will be easier for beginners to obtain those cards. And when those cards are very good in certain situations now, they will still be usefull in those situations after a small nerf.
 
Retreating Circle: "Creats a Portal that teleports friendly units in a 15m radius back to the nearest Monument of their owner"
Mission for Soultree: "x/5 Monuments needed to banish Viridya have been claimed."
Both of those situations need a Monument. There's nothing written about any spheres. So when Amii-Munument doesn't count as a Monument, just as a sphere (as it obviously is in Retreating Circle), then Soultree shouldn't count it as a Monument either.

No, It's not ok and should be fixed somehow. It's not good design of RTS game when you can just skip 90% of map mechanics.
Especially for Sunbridge, it's completely awful.
Crusade feature isnt so bad as others in this list.
I hoped for all this months that devs would fix these problems later.Later after all necessary work, like bugs, interface improvements and balance fixes.
But this thread isnt good place to discuss maps changes.
Yeah, isntead of killing one camp you should annoyingly manage your energy, builduings and orbs. That's very cool!(NO)
So they kinda approved....for example, absolutely unacceptable balance of t2-t3 twilight units?=)
MB that's just because some parts of their team wasn't that good as other parts?
And everyone of us knows that this card completely destroy idea of mono decks.
This card is best example of bad design decision of old team.
Idea isnt that bad, but realisation is awful - this one card affects for whole game more than any other.
And also it's not real card like others(spells, buildings, units) - it's additional game mechanic.

Well pvp is pretty dead for now for some reasons, yes. But this would change drastically after the reset. 

Just a quick note:
You aren't able to teleport your units to Amii-Monument when you use Retreating Circle. So it seems like in this case Amii-Monument doesn't count as a legit orb. Pick your bug ^^

@wanky Kubik is very neutral.
A few things to make clear:
- Phasetower and Mortar must be nerfed for pvp. We cant take the 5-10 speedrunners of this game into balancing just because they dont want to finish a map a few seconds or minutes slower than before. After the nerf it still would be useable for all of you rare speedrunners out there. Trust me. 
- Nether warp green is clearly a glitch. There is no single intention in the cardtext to be like that.
- Original Battleforge balancing focuse was everytime mainly on pvp and this common practice must be continued.
- We cant discuss forever for a card like thugs that clearly just needs an easy and fast HP nerf to be fine. We cant discuss forever just because there are how many speedrunners out there? Maybe 8 or so, just because a few of these 8 do have the opinion that cards should not be balanced forever and the other few do want an extra balancing for pvp and an extra balancing for speedrun just because they dont want to be slower than before.
 
-Balancing is absolutely not a serious matter in speedrun. Everyone have the same chance. Its mainly only all about speed. But balancing is a very serious matter in competitive pvp. Please now understand this fact.
 

In my point of view the opinion of the devs should count more than new player's opinion. I would recommend the folowing order:
Devs and Community Managers Player's who made really usefull suggestions in the past in the forum (like Treim, who wrote a lot of tutorials in the forum and made really good suggestions) Highly skilled players, Speedrunners and Top PvP Players (like LEBOVIN and HighTech) Players who are playing for a longer time, but are not really good at it Players who started recently playing (categorisation is left to the devs impressions)
Dont worry, if Kubik would not care about the community's opinion, he would not have created this topic. You can just explain, why even Santa can be usefull in some speedruns  

oh so you would like "pecefull" mode for all maps?
so you want insta win all maps where main objective is to kill the boss?
Doesn't that sound at least bit wrong to you?
If you so agree with EA why are you even here? they kinda approved game being dead

When the map was released that card did not exist so you skip part of map, just because single card check map next time you will be playing it it show you which monuments you should have Because of that I thin it is a bug, that they add card without checking for consequences (not to mention that you have the orb for only 250 instead of 300 power, that can aslos make big difference on some other maps, yes ability cost 160 power, but you get 100% of that back)

amii in soultree is BUG and will be fixed at some point

I think a set of balancing changes would be able to influence both PvP and PvE in a positive way.
PvE casual: 
From my perspective the casual player benefits from changes because it would open up more variety and playable decks. Splash decks are able to do everything (and even more) compared to pure and faction based decks making them underwhelming to play. Also by having all core advantages that factions provide (Crowd Control, Void Manipulation, Charge Manipulation, damage reductions and healing combined with a mobile high dps unit composition) you don't have to play as a team in order to suceed. I think every faction should get more unique strengths. In addition to that some dead abilities could be fixed by small changes to make them more useful and units more interactive. Right now you usually lose tempo and dps in most fights as abilities are expensive with a high cast time and low to medium effects. 
 
PvE Speedrunning: 
I think the only negative aspect regarding balaning would be within the PvE speedrun setting. They want to have a fair competition and with constant changes around cards this aspect is not given anymore for cPvE alltime records. Certain nerfs may weaken current strategies and certain buffs may open up new superior ones. 
By looking at the games history I think nerfs regarding PvE were justified and made the game a little bit healthier overall. Lost Spirit Ship, Second Chance, FoF+ embalmer + Splicer void manipulation fixes were good first steps. Overall I think some changes do make speedrunning more interesting as it forces people to create new strategies and not play current ones to perfection to get extra seconds. I'd clearly like to see the new T4 strategies without Batariel & LSS being super dominant. That may just be my opinion though. 
In the case where changes are applied they should be brought up in a way that allows speedrunners to have a fair competition: 
-> If changes are applied please do it at the start of the month to allow a fair competition. If there is some big nerf applied in the middle of a month records aren't comparable anymore. 
 
PvP 
I think there is a crystal clear consenous, that PvP players want changes. But we need to be very cautious about who is in charge of those changes. I don't think being at the top of the ladder directly qualifies a person to work on healthy balancing ideas. I've seen very questionable balancing ideas from people, that are reasonably high in the ladder. Majority votes also lead to some terrible decisions by EA back then. Alot of things need to be discussed in order to find the correct cards that need to be changed and also find healthy changes. 
 
I think the forum is the best place to discuss changes to have an open discussion due to better visibility of older posts. 

This is absolutely nonsense.
As a experienced speedrunner, normal pve and rpve player and top 10 pvp player in 1v1 and top 5 in 2v2 i can say its fact that every possible and very needed change for pvp as for example: Mortarnerf, phasetowernerf, netherwarp (green) glitchfix, thugsnerf, cursed well, Altar of Nihil, voidstorm and so on, does absolutely NOT affect any of the speedrun tactics. Every speedrun tactic on every map is absolutely still doable with any cardchanges for pvp.
The PvP scene needs some big balancing changes. The speedrun scene needs exactly 0 balancing changes.
 
In clearly most of the competitive pvp games the pvp has the absolute highest balancing priority. This should also count to battleforge. If not than the game cant be taken serious belonging to the word "competitive" and overall this would be catastrophical. This i am saying as an ESL (esportleague) player but also as an passionate speedrunner and pve player. 
 
Ofcourse there are stronger and weaker cards in every game but in pvp there have to be cards, combinations and deck variations that have to be nearly equal to each other. Because of some broken cards two colours arent really competitive in pvp: Nature and Frost t1. Nearly every competitive player plays fire or shadow t1. For a "competitive" pvp mode this is absolutely catastrophical.
 
The pvp needs balancing changes big time and now.

Relatively. in 2013 it was better than 2009, but only because it was made better step by step.
Sometimes the Greeks are 95 % of players, then we should consider making 5% a little less happy for the greater good. This is how it was always done in the history of Battleforge balancing.
Me, too. But not necessarily topplayer by rank, but moreso by rank and the ability to explain things and have a balance discussion. Some topplayers views on balance are straight simpleminded.
So if we nerf cursewell for example every tactic for speedruns is useless? You're dramatising. Some tactics would become useless, some would be created. But the overlap between speedrun - and pvp cards isn't as big as you want ot make it seem.
Historically balancing in BF was always done regarding toplevel play, wich makes sense cause this is where games are decided mostly by deckstrength and not bad decisions, micro mistakes and missing knowledge. It would also be impossible to balance cards for all skilllevels. It's literally easier to learn how to build the right deck, watch replays of topplayers and train then to have every card balanced to your skillevel.

for the 12p maps, yes and yes, but do you know the events? I do not and that is the problem, they are just not there at all, or well hidden.
"Even one hour of dev" you maybe not read my first post so I rephrase it for you. Simple changes as cost, health, or damage, are numbers and to change numbers I do not need an hour, but more like a second.
"And diversion should be avoided." What exactly you expect me to do whole day at work and at home? Most of the time I am watching discord and forum if there is any new bug report, because I have no idea what cases these crashes, and without reports chance to somehow figure it out is very very small, because I did not see any crash, even thou some players claim they crash every match.
So @Cocofang I put it to "Planned before release" on https://trello.com/b/4HFfIUCA/skylords-reborn, but not to "In progress" because there is really nothing I can do without information.
I just decided to fix/improve as many things as possible before release, because I have nothing better to do right now, without informations.
based on https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScpTeA_Lv1b1M0imSel-B8UgYsP9evdmj-DiRQ-x1vAFwLZAw/viewform?usp=pp_url over 80% players crashes, but I get logs from 3 people in last 4 weeks (most of them was not related to these crashes).
If you have any suggestion how to proceed feel free to share it, you obviously do not like my idea to solve balance issues that could get here some more players that will hopefully reports the problems.

In terms of balancing in the PvP community I am pretty optimistic that we can come to a consensus on a lot of the changes while just letting the controversial stuff sit where it is for now. In the last year of Battleforge's balancing, MaranV, myself, and 1 or 2 other major English players were able to present agreed upon changes to most watchlists. The English forum's watchlist on homesoil is a great example where a number of us privately worked out an acceptable homesoil change that MaranV then posted to the forum. The entire rest of the watchlist was just people posting "I agree with MaranV's proposed change." Of course Phenomic then responded by releasing the current slapshod homesoil change that almost no one is happy with. I think these discussions are easier to have on the forum because you can go back and review what someone has said previously easier and long posts don't appear as walls of text.
In terms of current Devs making PvP changes, I'd prefer if they just deferred to the top players on issues to avoid more bad balancing like with homesoil and thugs. The current Devs have also made it pretty clear that they don't play PvP anyway.

Another Wave