LagOps

honestly a card that just prevents you from playing cards is a terrible design. i'm happy it is close to unusable. i mean what are you going to do if the enemy plays an xl unit and you can't have giant slayers? is that supposed to be fair?

@YaBro0 would it not be better to nerf those cards which are clearly op? currently nature t2 consist mostly of the broken som+ep+ps combo (and later on permaheal do due to this) but has nothing aside from that. in my opinion, it would be much better to not have them autolose vs. burrowers and fix the issues with other cards in the faction. i think it is clear to everyone that we have to tone down this unhealthy combo if we ever want to rework pure nature.

@Hirooo yes, that's definately the case unless spikerroot is combined with ensnaring roots. i also belive it is fine this way, the unit is more suited for setting up sieges that combat in open field or defense. aside from that, you are constantly forced to micro your units out of it and i recon it would reduce the dps of those units quite a bit. it's nothing stellar, but it isn't like spikerroot gets useless when dealing with other units.

with the addition of treespirit you can actually have a working t2 root network. it's just too bad players who play treespirit lame their way through t2 with deep one spamm after ep spamm with void manipulation. i still would like to have treespirit reworked into a mele t2 m/m unit with the root ability only attacking air units. this way you could give the root playstyle some love while fixing the m/m counter issue pure nature has in t2 as a bonus on top of it.

@SilenceKiller99 ofc you would not just brainlessly build towers. but using towers to defend is a legit tactic. i often see (defensive) mortar, phase tower, shield tower, canon tower (in stonekin).

no that is 100% not true. thing is frost t1 has such a good defense that you won't lose wells most of the time, and those which you use would not be saved by having that tower.

@Chimaka(Same) at maximum upgrade level, windhunter has 600 hp. my thoughts on the card: the active is really an interesting component of the card and i like it a lot. i use it very often and to great effect (green affinity) . it CAN conter coldsnap, parasite swarm, stormsinger ability, poison from spirit hunters, night guard... the purple affinity is really lacking in comparison and i can't see why i would pick it over the green one in any situation. the life steal actually has some value on this unit, 2 hits of skyfire + erupt can't kill it, ability+hit also gets you over 300 hp and prevents erupt. now to the bad part... 1. the damage is lower than stated on the card. 137 dmg just is so annoying, skyfire drakes allways get away with a sliver of health. 150 dmg per hit would be enough... 2. the aoe is too small to make damage to s units after the first hit. instead of countering s units it makes this unit very weak vs. them. especially assasins destroy this unit. please fix the bugs.

it's good that it isn't viable... if it was any good, buffdancer would be brutal. no idea why this card was made in the first place.

oh boy the ultimate troll tower deck is back! having so much fun with this in 2v2

personally i prefer to run solid counters in my bandits pvp deck to at least have the option of counterplay against as many things as possible. the main reason i would DEFINATELY go for darkelves is their burst. if i am forced to defend with a bandits deck, my top priority is to push the enemy away from the well and force cc early on. it is especially nice to force hurricane since it does not work with root (vs. frenzy forsaken, but then da can attack again) and it does not work with oinc either (dmg breaks oinc). burst matters as it is paramount to get rid of threats as soon as possible, otherwise your well is going to drop. ofc burst is also nice if you are sieging with a banner. for the sorceress to be a legit choice, she would have to deal massive damage imo. m counters in t2 are brutally strong and typically allways on the field. the damage (even what is on the card) is too low for me to consider playing her.

yeah maybe a da nerf is needed, but i guess that would mostly promote s/m counters as they are not affected by hurricane. might result in factions with strong m counters to be hard to deal with for shadow splashes, especially pure frost might be an issue. as a unit, da is certainly above the curve. however, i feel that it is needed, shadow splashes would lack air counters. there could be more severe drawbacks to da, but it would likely need a lot of testing. maybe a shorter active duration or a longer period in which they can't attack. taking away the dmg might not be a good idea since they are relied on for air defense (despite being s counters). maybe make them lose the s counter when stanced?

well what can i say. the basic attacks are bugged and do far less damage than stated on the card. not that bandits would need her as an s counter anways... the ability is not too bad, works ok in 2v2 closewell situations if your teammate builds his deck accordingly. especially nice with rioter's retreat if you can somehow fit it in the deck. just mostly too situational and not worth the slot. not sure how usefull it is in pve, but in defense scenarios i can see it working quite well. overall a sub par card that does not fit the bandits playstyle outside of wierd 2v2 and pve tactics with rioter's. no idea what phenomic was thinking when making that card...

propably the best m/m counter in t2. nc comes close, but i would prefer enforcer because of the burst/gap close of the charge and the fact it is less voulnerable to cc.

well multiplicative dmg-reduction is just common sense i games, otherwise it would be a waste not to stack it additively into oblivion...

i doubt reworking it into an m counter would be such a good idea. they may be better in open combat than ice guardians, but that might just create more issues as it would take away a major weakness of the faction. on the other hand the card would most likely still not be played unless it gets buffed a whole lot, just because it is a slow s mele unit and ice guardians are really good units. it will be really hard to find a balance here. they either are not worth the slot or have stupidly high stats and are only played because they are broken. i honestly would just leave them as they are for now, they are not bad units. i don't play pve a lot, but they might be usefull in some cases as they are cheap and really tanky for a t1 unit.

now thats your typical design failure. it has no place in the faction, but is otherwise fine. why would you play a slow mele s/s unit if you have 2 very hard s counters in t1?

pure nature really needs a reliable m/m counter and i STILL think we should simply take treespirit and rework it into a t2 card! it would solve the m/m counter issue and would help out root decks which are a bit underplayed. i would buff mainly the damage in its mele form so it can get rid of burrowers or at least push them off the well, the rooted form should not be overly buffed as the root network amplification really gets out of control quickly. and most impostantly we can finally play a t1 without having to deal with this broken turtle card and minimal t1 builds. it just saves far too many slots when compared to a conventional t1 and prevents almost all offensive plays vs. nature. parasite swarm can't really help out vs. burrowers at all due to hurricane, but making it steadyfast would definately remove too much counterplay to it (erupt, nasty, hurricane, frostmage...). ps is allready surprisingly good against m units, especially pure fire hardly stands a chance.

the card itself is totally fine, it just often gets abused as the swaped units do not hold power... so players just swap everything without thinking (often 70pwer+ units get swaped at some point in the game) and get the power back with void manipulation and ep spamm. i feel that it would be justified to reduce the charges to 2. this gives 8 when fully upgraded, just as skyfiredrake. this way nature players who abuse this card will eventually run out of charges while everything is the same for non-lamers.

awesome news! PRAISE THE SUN!

we can't and shouldn't do that.

we have discussed firedancer a lot allready. the general consensuse is that the card is 100% fine in high elo, but an issue in mid elo as it takes more skill to counter than execute. if there should be a nerf, high lvl play should not be affected; it would be best to reduce dmg when cliffing only. if that's not possible, i am against a general nerf in any way. would propably weaken the card too much for high lvl play.

@Destoyerfros become my apprentice and victory shall be yours! the way of the lag does not know defeat!

i forgot to mention, i'm german, so feel free to GER to my languages.

That's the Spirit(OfTheAbyss)! I think you did allready a really good considering the amont of time played. Maybe in 2-3 months after release you could allready win a match against me. Its not that you are lacking skill (at least not as much as you think you do, you are rather close skill wise), it is just that i know you too well. i spectated so many of your matches, it will be hard for you to surprise me anymore. But i am really glad that at least one of my "Apprenticies" made it into high rank (most others quit pvp at some point), it was really fun teaching you and seeing you win! I would love to have some more matches between us, besides: i don't get to play against root decks a whole lot. I think there is still a thing or two i can learn about playing against root decks.

i can tutor bandits, but also other decks. apprenticies should have understood the basics of pvp and be willing to learn. i will be online a lot, but not at a regular schedule.