SunWu

There is no balance in low level PVP play. Players use the cards they know are strong in PVE. Then they see their 50 power units getting knocked back by an 150 power aggressor and then think aggressor is OP (wich of course is not). Balancing is impossible for this level of skill (if you want to balance it for the toplevel of skill at the same time)

Can this thread get a little less hostile? I also don't agree with Deldrimor when he equals a high pvp rank with an ability to handle balancing decissions. Here are some prime (pun not intended) examples of what i mean: ,,main tire was nature T1 cause its strongest'' ,,if the player knows how to play and got the skills he can counter anything so pls cut it out... stop cry about cliffdancer'' ,,bandits is absolut underrated'' These are quotes from top 10 players from this forum. They aren't all great at theocrafting like some might think. (and i don't care for the bad spelling, it's only the content of theses quotes wich scares me)

Doesn't it heal way more than twice the amount of the carddescription though? I thougt that's why it's considered a bug and not just some unintended use. I can't test at the moment cause i don't have the green netherwarp yet.

https://forum.skylords.eu/index.php?/profile/2579-imaginarynumb3r/ ?

Relatively. in 2013 it was better than 2009, but only because it was made better step by step. Sometimes the Greeks are 95 % of players, then we should consider making 5% a little less happy for the greater good. This is how it was always done in the history of Battleforge balancing. Me, too. But not necessarily topplayer by rank, but moreso by rank and the ability to explain things and have a balance discussion. Some topplayers views on balance are straight simpleminded. So if we nerf cursewell for example every tactic for speedruns is useless? You're dramatising. Some tactics would become useless, some would be created. But the overlap between speedrun - and pvp cards isn't as big as you want ot make it seem. Historically balancing in BF was always done regarding toplevel play, wich makes sense cause this is where games are decided mostly by deckstrength and not bad decisions, micro mistakes and missing knowledge. It would also be impossible to balance cards for all skilllevels. It's literally easier to learn how to build the right deck, watch replays of topplayers and train then to have every card balanced to your skillevel.

He probably ment units like lost dancer, lost wanderer (wich has seen some play though), twilight minions etc - S/F relies on shadow and frost units while F/N relies on nature and fire units. But even stonekin and bandits can do fine without their respective faction units, wich just shows how much strong splashable cards there are. Concerning frost vs nature T1, i don't know if there's a better way to play this, but if the optimal play is frost mage spam, this macthup is outright stupid in terms of balance. If mountaineer gets a nerf, pure fire gets buffed and fire/frost nerfed, i don't think that's good. In situations like this combinations of changes are needed, otherwise some matchups will turn out worse then before if you only look at the ,,problematic'' matchups. (In this case mounty vs fire/nature or pure fire).

I'd always go for a shadow start when playing 2 x shadow for early ressource boosters. Not a fan of netherwarp, it heals like nothing and if you warp your teammates it might mess up their spells and focus fire (i for example hate when i cast a spell like revenge on my units and then get ported somewhere else. Or i carefully micro my tanks in the front and low HP dragons in the back only to get thrown in the middle of the base by some netherwarp). You should think about incredible Mo cause otherwise lost dragons are a huge annoyance for your ships. Maybe a second affinity of frenetic wich i find to be more valuable then for example oink. Thunderstorm is also nice.

After the first 5 oink seconds you probably only got one mage down. Second mage already gets woken up immediately once focused and is able to deal damage, maybe even motivated. In the other thread Radical mentioned spikeroot wich seems much better than ghostspears and deep one.

I'm no expert on pure nature, but from a few dekka replays back then i remember even the best pure nature player suffered alot when encountering this tactic. Really easy to excecute and at the same time really hard to defend in this matchup as it seems. Even if it wouldn't be strong at all i would like to see this bug (wich it is) fixed. Edit: another magewarp thread

He was talking about shadow T1 versus shadow T1, shadow T1 vs fire T1, etc, not about T2. I think the game is relatively balanced, too, but not perfectly. Wich is pretty much the consensus among most players these days; Lost and pure fire a little too strong, pure nature and bandits a little too weak. When we focus on T1 only it's no secret that frost and nature are the underdogs.

Well there are other roles to fulfill then clearing level 9 and 10 camps. For example speed doesn't play a role when there's a defensive position to hold, wich is a part of a lot of campaign maps. Constructs in their current state fit that role perfectly. It can't all be balanced to be viable in rPVE, most of T3 for example will never be - cause T3 isn't as important in rPVEs as T1 or T4 for wich most of the slots are used usually. And like others said, constructs can also keep up in rPVE with the help of netherwarp or deepcoil worm tunneling.

The only standard attack that knocks back bosses though, wich makes it really strong (no extra power or timewasting animation or cooldown like an ability might have). Construct pros and cons: + super long range + siege damage + S, M, L and XL unit knockback + only one frost orb needed - slow - can't attack air Remove it's slow speed and it becomes more OP than lost spirit ship ever was. Spells could deal with air units, while your unstoppable army would kill everything before it could even get close. Battleship pros and cons: + flying unit - underwhelming damage - 300 powercost is on the expensive side - slow I see construct as a much stronger and more versatile card than battleship, so it surprises me that some people would like to see both of them buffed the same way.

I Like to play pure decks in PVE, a shame the pure T4 cards (maybe except batariel) aren't worth it to go pure. For nature that would be forest elder wich is a beautiful card but if you want to go for strength or speed mabye put in another orb or two like MutatedTurtle said - you could play all the cards you got in your deck so far in a XX deck, too. Pure nature is not weak though and you can easily do lvl 9s with the deck you already have. Another fun spell would be mind control wich lets you takes over AI units (except for windhunters for some reason). Shaman makes T1 a bit easier, creeping paralysis would give you another cc. Colossus is another strong T4 XL. If you want to be lazy in T3 you can get enlightenment and spawn T4 units immediatley.

some other good frost/nature solo rPVE cards: - frost bite (good against bosses) - crystal fiend, preferably green - thunderstorm - equilibrium - wheels of gift (expensive and more of a luxury than really needed, especially because grinders already heal themselfs up anyway) - giant wyrm (cheap to buy and upgrade, a flying T4 makes it easy to take out spawcamps, grinders for example often get stuck in traffic) - revenge or stone shell or ward of the north (all three do the same job) - ice tornado - grimvine (a cheaper alternative than grinder charges) - construct (only as temporary support for strong bosses like twilight infestor, you only need one for constant knockback) Like Flrbb said, T3 is a little too big unitwise, your T2, too i think, otherwise it looks solid. You could get free slots for useful spells by replacing all the units except one T3 and maybe one T2 unit - archer and mage spam with home soil already clears a lot of bases.

It's already possible to sell boosters (direct trade). So far it didn't destroy the market, almost no one sells a booster more than 10% cheaper than the AH. If there will be inflation (too much maxed out collections, too much circulating BFP, not enough demand after cards) then the reason will probably be a decline of new players. Though the slowed down progression after the reset will decrease the chance of that happening.

Hi, in the long run you will definetly need: - hurricane: too efficent against S units to leave to leave it out in any nature splash. Also stops wells from repairing wich is useful in a deck without damage spell. - stormsinger: a swift, ranged M counter is always good but with stormsinger you also get an amanzingly efficent ability. You will need this ability against skyfiredrakes, wich can be pretty annoying for stonekin. - burrower: like you already said your T2 lacks swiftness, but more importantly it lacks damage output against buildings, that's why burrower is a must in stonekin. - spirit hunters: solid unit wich can be used defensively but also to support your attacks - timeless one: superefficent cc-ability wich makes defense much, much easier. - some additional T3 cards of your choice, especially some defensive counter units like drones, stonewarrior (synergises perfectly with timeless one) or silverwindlancers are needed if you want to be able to deal with every situation Dont take out root or kobold trick, both are very strong cards and very much needed. Cards that aren't really strong imo: Wintertide, Rogan, Viridya, Moon, coldsnap

Shaman is an ogre, windweavers are wood elfs, forestkin are for example: spikeroot, thornbark, grimvine, nightshade plant, sporelauncher. Beasts for example are deep one, juggernaut, abomination, burrower, sunderer, moloch and a lot more. 15 minutes would indeed be a very bad idea, but 1 minute would be bad, too. Sometimes you just wait a minute or more to collect power or for an imcoming wave of enemies. Would feel stupid to be forced to move your units around just to show you're not afk in these situations. I think the current timespan is working well for its intent.

Yes! Haladur, Elyon and small, midcentered random maps are tough for frost but Uro is the nightmare! Nature is a strange matchup where i actually liked the map but in the classic matchups versus shadow or fire you are doomed. Even if you get your spot and take a well or an orb (cause you can't win a dazed fight) you will lose against a classic rush or mortar, phasetower or a swift spam. So like already said it would be really good if random maps come back to save frost T1 players from getting Uro too often. Some big random maps are actually really good for the usual frost T1 decks pure frost and stonekin because they like to take a lot of wells in most matchups. Banning Uro? Mhh i would say yes, but only because of my personal disgust for long T3 fights (wich tend to happen a lot on this map) and that's a personal matter. I think except for frost T1 players most people don't have too much of an issue with this map. And frost T1 and mapgamble will stay a problem anyway...

Yes

Wait till you have an army of thunderwagons next to you for a whole game...VRRMVRRMVRMMVRMMVRRMVRRM

You can upgrade cards with gold now, wich is how i personally upgraded almost all of my cards. Other than that there's only the option you mentioned. I began selling mine as soon as i found out i can. But its more because i want to keep my inventory clean only with cards i actually use and not for economic reasons. If you're a new player you are probably not experenced with usual market prices and therefor definetly shouldnt open boosters and then try to sell the individual cards. If someone already knows what he wants he should sell the boosters and then buy a lot of the cheap and good cards to start out in PVE. If someone is totally lost and doesn't know any of the cards he should probably see what other people play, look up threads or ask on the forums and then decide what colour(s) to play - sell boosters, buy the first cheap deck with cheap cards from the auction house. Even if you're experienced on the market and know how to trade there's a lot of variance in the boosters.

Damn i didn't even know this, thought the only difference is green negates heals and purple poisons!

When you meet a top PvP player in rPVE

Maybe a teammate supporting him? You can't see who lays the mine, it would only be suspiscious if there was nobody with a fire orb.