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Cocofang
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Posts posted by Cocofang
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Good catch!
Internally each upgrade of a card is actually its very own unique card with individual properties that can be, independent from other upgrades of that card, adjusted at will. That's how different upgrade stages for cards can do different things.
So what happened here is that U0, U1 and U2 of Sunken Temple G don't have the necessary functionality of the Hibernation mode. Which breaks the entire building now because it was changed in such a way that it needs the Hibernation mode to work. U3 has it, so it works as intended.
Can be fixed but for now use U3.
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Known bug. Rageflame B does not correctly apply the flag that the targets are being "frozen" which breaks these interactions. Will be fixed.
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Another thing to note about Behind Enemy Lines is that the changes to tower targeting, which mostly affected T1 towers, now allow these to reliably hit the Twilight Disciple when being built at the top of the plateau.
Xamos likes this -
11 hours ago, Fundus said:
The last post in that topic is from April 29, 2021 and its not even in the Balance Discussions section.
Are you suggesting people would've brought up different points if it was? That the arguments would've changed one year later? What actually hasn't been said about these topics at this point? Even right here it devolved into yet another repeat with the same people talking about the same things ad neuseam. Some of which isn't even relevant anymore.
The discussion and community interaction was there, whether you like to acknowledge that or not. If anything the fact that part of it took place on Discord lead to more input not less. Also awfully selective to completely ignore all the times where things were adjusted or just downright thrown overboard based on community feedback. "Not what I wanted the result to be" or "Too few adjustments to the changes that count for me" does not equal "Nobody asks anyone about anything".
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And after you nerfed Bloodhorn whats gonna get nerfed next? Fire Dragons or Wasteland Terror + Unity and Bloodthirst?
False equivalency and Bloodhorn isn't even scheduled for any changes.
2 hours ago, Fundus said:Also i would really like to know why there was no topic about Batariel in the Balance Discussions part of the forum before he was nerfed you just made those changes without asking the BF community first. There are topics about Colossus and Necroblaster but not about Batariel.
I mean, fair enough about there not being a dedicated forum topic. Then again, the Balancing Discord is available to everyone, is more active than the balancing forum and the dedicated Batariel thread dates back to January 9th 2022. The initial nerf patch hit September 14th. Almost 250 days in between. Even before that Batariel was a topic that was brought up repeatedly. And the changes went through several iterations based on feedback. Riling that the community was not asked is blatantly untrue. Similar for Decomposer. Hotly debated topic since forever. "Asking the BF community" also consists of following relevant discussions, which is done. And there is literally a huge, old topic titled "Decomposer" on this forum with staff engagement.
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It is ridiculous hyperbole to call Primeval Watcher a "trash tier" card which really cannot be taken seriously. Its chaining attack with Siege has huge damage potential and Stasis Field is more versatile than ever. It got stronger in every way, except the orb requirement changes. That alone makes it bad?
I would be in favor of moving it to
since it left this orb combination without a payoff unit from natures side given that Spore Launcher is dedicated to its own deck archetype. Since that Siege doesn't really fit Primeval Watcher thematically anyway, like are the fairies it spits out carrying away the bricks or something, I'd just give that up in order to make it more flexible once again.
QuoteBloodhorn for example is MUCH more powerful and only requires 1 shadow and 1 fire same applies to Gemeye,which by the way recieved a buff without changing its orb requirements.
Bloodhorn is so powerful that realistically it should be a pure Bandit card or at least have hybrid orbs instead of flex. The fact that it still retains its requirements despite its power is already a concession.
Enlightened Bata was ludicrously OP and everybody knew it. Claiming that the new Bata, despite it being a very powerful carry deck, is in any way weak just underlines how the existence of complete outliers warp and twist the perception of power. Imagine if Bata never had an uncapped damage aura that is affected by buffs. Just a steady 100 DPS. People would be blown away by its 300 DPS aura right now.
Decomposer straight up broke the game by throwing any conventions about economy out the window. BH farming was just a symptom of that, although it did heavy damage to progression. In any case the mechanic is planned to make a comeback through a dedicated mode. Addressing the issue was a priority though.All of that was talked to death though, so focusing back on the topic at hand I think the weakspot of pure Nature is still T2. Fire can just continue to roll with its incredibly T1s, Shadow has Phoenix and Frost also gets a sturdy arsenal. Nature T2 feels wonky in comparison.
T1 was always good although somewhat monotonous but at least there is a semi-viable Werebeasts + Amazon + Fountain of Rebirth combo now. Still heavily suffers from being melee though. T3 is also good and even got a really fun toy with Abyssal Warder + Promise of Life. T4 is buttery smooth with Forest Elder being amazing, Primeval Watcher shredding and Mind Control being both good and fun. I am still unconvinced by Sanctuary but changes to Willzapper might help there.
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There are currently no plans of adding either to boosters.
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@Kubik What would be the easiest and most straight forward solution when it comes to making an older version (for example the Sunset-BattleForge version the game shut down with) available? Akin to how the test-server is available.
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Nostalgia is fleeting. A coherent, solid game is forever. The game is in a better state than it ever was at any point in time, among other things because of various fixes and nerfs, few as they were.
With that being said though, I myself am strongly in favor of providing a Legacy BF version. Although there would have to be a strict hands-off policy because when you would get into talking about which things to fix and which additions to implement it's another can of worms. So no popularity voting like "X was disliked by most, that should be fixed. Change Y was liked by most, that should be implemented". It has to be an as-is version of the game from a pre-release point. Simply a time capsule. Straight performance/stability fixes are of course fine but absolutely no additions and changes that affect gameplay in any way.
And the patch the legacy version would get pulled from has to be decided on as well. Simply the very last official version is the most straight forward. And would probably make the most sense too. But maybe an even older version would be more desirable? Although I wonder how accessible these older versions even are.
I doubt it would split the playerbase in any meaningful way as people really interested in such a version of the game and those that want the current, changed version seem to be somewhat different audiences in the first place. Logging into this Legacy BF could function similarly to how logging into the testserver functions.
DefAnske, SpiritAlpha and Metagross31 like this -
I think that would actually improve the consistency of card prices and reduce the frequency of price spikes.
A price spike commonly occurs when the supply of a given card runs out so the next seller takes this opportunity to put theirs up for some outrageous price. Which then leads to this new price being the reference point for several future listings until, over the course of a few days, people undercutting one another leads to the price being normalized again.
Price spikes can of course still be artificial when somebody intentionally buys up the supply for one card to relist it but at least against organically occurring price spikes longer AH times could help.
Dallarian, erkserkserks, Volin and 2 others like this -
Updated the Cost-Section. Also used the opportunity to update and improve the deck. Much stronger now but also needs more gold.
Price stayed around the same, some card alternatives got slightly more expensive.
Metagross31 likes this -
Updated the Cost-Section. Turns out the deck got even cheaper now thanks to reforging.
Some card alternatives also became cheaper.
Lans and Metagross31 like this -
Ravenheart is not categorized as Bandit. The buff icon from Rioter's Retreat also doesn't show up. You probably confused it with the regular idle-healing around buildings.
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At this stage of the deck I'd ditch Swamp Drake and/or Unholy Hero. Problem is that with the current orb progression the deck can only get void manipulation by T4, not T3. In order to get it on T3 (like Shrine of Memory or Shrine of War) you'd have to get rid of Lost Horror, which is an incredibly powerful unit because of its multishot. But Magma Hurlers would be nice too, as a Common alternative. Using Rares there can be Deepcoil Worm or Nightshade Plant. Or you commit a lot more to Swamp Drakes and supplement them with another L ground unit as meat shield.
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12 hours ago, WindHunter said:
I notice that players are more interested in deck diversity at the higher tiers where cards tend to be more complex.
I'd love more T1 diversity personally. But a lot of T1 units either lean towards PvP or just cannot keep up with the good T1s, making them incredibly niche. What's the point of Scavenger when you have Nomad for most situations for example? Especially ranged units are just so much better than a front-to-back army with melee. Or even pure melee, which can be just pure suffering. Amazon+Werebeasts+Fountain of Rebirth has great synergy but still does nothing against buildings.
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I'm not looking for personal gratification about how I, as a player, carried that match. I mean, I even died once early because I botched an early engage. This was never about my performance but Batas. The match was just meant to demonstrate that the Bata deck is strong enough to pull some weight.
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Well, I put myself out there and scrapped together some replays to scrutinize.
I still think that a fire map where 3/4 players have multiple wipes and some ended up spawning T3 units to at least have some meat on the field is a hard carry. Sure, the other players were evidently inexperienced but that does not detract from the point, it underlines it. Blue wiped more than once, Green only had a few surviving Giant Wyrms because they decided to not fight anymore and rather join up and Teal also only made it because they tagged along with Bata. Teal would've even wiped in the last base without the spell support I provided, but it obviously doesn't show who cast the spells.
Anyone else got a couple replays to check out that demonstrate that the Enlightened Bata deck does or doesn't work?
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Juvenescence is a non-factor. Strength gets overwritten by Unholy Hero. Resilience does help, so does Mo. Dipping low on Bata is just a matter of heal timing. I played a bit more on the edge, mostly because I have to get accustomed, but it can be done much safer.
Generally, 4P rPvE9 has other players doing something, yes. The measurement for viability isn't if I can tell the other 3 players to go afk and still win. Clearly there are instances where the Bata-deck is doing the heavy lifting in these engagements. The second fire map was 100% lost without it. I'm not saying it's the only deck that could've carried that map. But I'm saying it totally did.
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I actually haven't rolled LS for a two or three days now, so no replay for that still. Alas, here is what I have now. All are 4P rPvE9.
Bata rPvE9 fire.pmv
So I guess what happened here is that the guy who was about to clear together with me got Nether Warped into the camp with my Batariel and decided "Okay, fuck this.", which is fair enough, so I cleared four camps entirely solo. Last camp was also pretty much alone, everything died before the other player got to it. Had help with the boss but you can still see the high burst damage from Batariel coming through. Absolutely no issues here despite some sloppy spell usage.Bata rPvE9 stonekin.pmv
I always try to rush ahead so I can clear camps solo, basically embracing the Batariel-mindset. Occasionally I help out with cross map spells, for example at around 7 minutes where the other player was struggling with a camp. No issues, but it's Stonekin, which has just a couple of annoyances in Windhunters.Bata rPvE9 fire 1death.pmv
Died once because I didn't prebuff, didn't pay attention and then panic-cast my spells when it was already too late. No matter, I swapped orbs once more and it was smooth from there. I absolutely HARD carried this entire map. Before the first death I helped the other side out to get their T4 because I basically already had my entire army up and running. There were several wipes and heavy losses from other players while I waltzed through camps and helped to clean up. It seems greatly exaggerated to call a deck "meme" or "dead" when it can put a fire map on its back. There is a desync and heavy lag at the end but I cleared one remaining camp pretty much alone and then helped with spells on the last. Could've been easily deathless if I didn't completely botch that one engage.Bata rPvE9 twilight.pmv
Not too eventful, bumbled around a bit. Also seemed like a relatively slim Twilight map.Bata rPvE9 stonekin 2.pmv
Tried to split off as often as I could to solo camps. Still just Stonekin, yet as a damage demonstration, you still deal enough to wipe entire armies, which I did two times. Once for a 2nd row and once for a 3rd row camp.Bata rPvE9 stonekin 3.pmv
Rolled yet another Stonekin, hooray. Guess this shows little but at least it establishes a baseline that you aren't just helpless with Bata now.Overall, I found playing Bata actually more enjoyable than before the patch. You engage with camps for once, not just port in and wait a moment for everything to die. I'll continue to play a few more, hopefully rolling some LS and more Twilight. However, at least I got two fire, which is generally considered to be a hard preset as well and (aside from one easily avoidable blunder) I had no issues, carried the game even. I cannot echo the huge troubles with survivability on rPvE9 till now. Boss damage felt good, except on airborne bosses, which I guess would need Fallen Skyelf.
It just plays differently now. Spell timing and usage has to adapt as well as the tactic used to engage camps because now you actually have to bother with some things that used to evaporate instantly. I'd let things settle for a bit first and see what adaptations can be made. Get some distance to the pre-patch Bata deck and see what playstyle or deck changes work post-patch. rPvE10 is another matter entirely, of course. But the discussion started out as being about rPvE9.
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Can you please provide replays that showcase Enlightened Bata was nerfed to death?
Deck is far from ruined, thanks to the compensatory buffs Bata tears chunks out of XL units and bosses. You have near limitless amounts of energy at your disposal, as is normal with single-unit decks. So you can lay down an Armageddon of spells. Unholy Hero + Gates of Hell still deals ungodly damage and Purgatory provides consistent AoE DPS and clear. Enlightened Bata can still solo camps.
Also, complaining about "ruined good and popular cards" when unused, bad cards still exist is so not fair, given the fact that the entire patch history since release up to this very patch was almost exclusively massive buffs after buffs after buffs to everything across the board. Never have more decks and cards been strong and viable in the history of the game. And extra care has been taken to make this the case before even rolling out the first nerfs so nobody is left with nothing. Even if Enlightened Bata wasn't alive and well there has never been such a wealth of options to choose from.
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XL units are very popular as they represent the peak of the power fantasy in Skylords. Seeing how the game is set up from the ground up to reuse assets I have been wondering how M units would fare if they were repurposed as XL units. There are many surprisingly good models! Especially with some great texture work there could be all sorts of new XL units. So I went through all M units and scaled them up to see how they hold up.
This is just a little personal project I did out of curiosity and I figured I might as well share. Enjoy the show and maybe some people get inspired to come up with fun concepts for these entities if they were actual L or XL units for specific factions and with different textures.
Amazon-Types
Amazon, Amii Phantom, Gladiatrix, Stormsinger, NightguardSpoiler
Overall decent models and variations. Could serve as ranged XL units, skewering things with spears the size of tree trunks. And would allow the exploration of the existence of giantess warriors. Or half giants in L format.
Big Gun-Types
Bandit Sniper, Nox Trooper, FireswornSpoiler
Rough to say the least. They start looking janky in L format already. Low poly count and odd proportions make these a hard sell as XL or even L units. They also highlight a problem with animations when scaling up. The giant-model of Dreadnought or the Warlord-type XL units sell the weight of their weapons and armor very well when walking. These guys swing their weapons around like they weight very little, so they aren't spectacular in that department either.
Dancer-Types
Bandit Sorceress, Firedancer, Frost Sorceress, Lost Dancer, Dryad, Winter Witch, Moon, ViridyaSpoiler
Another tough sell. Especially the dancers and dryads have problems when scaled up. If you look closely at them in-game you can see that the fluid motion of their hands is actually them wobbling their fingers up and down as if they were made of rubber. These sort of visual tricks work when they are small but fall apart when scaled up and it just looks weird. They don't have a lot going on either, the models are relatively plain.
Dino-Types
Bandit Stalker, Icefang Raptor, Firestalker, Razorshard, Swiftclaw, ScavengerSpoiler
Now here is something! How about giant war dinosaurs? Swiftclaw is pretty ugly but the other guys have lots of details to work with on their models and could look even better with a detailed texture.
Flyer-Types
Crystal Fiend, Magma Spore, Mana Wing, Energy Parasite, DeathgliderSpoiler
Of the bunch I think Energy Parasite actually has the most promise. Very unique and detailed model that could serve as the template for lots of things when re-textured.
Insect-Types
Scythe Fiends, Witchclaws, Twilight Crawlers, Drones, Burrower, Nightcrawler, Shadow InsectSpoiler
My favorite models. They look and move amazing when scaled up! Pretty much all of them are prime stuff to serve as crazy new XL and L units. Especially Witchclaws look rad. Re-textures could open up even more possibilities.
Ogre-Types
Eliminator, Enforcer, Slaver, Executor, Knight of Chaos, Lightblade, Mauler, Twilight Brute, Mountain Rowdy, Shaman, WarlockSpoiler
A big but very weak group. Most ogres are just blobs. But Lightblade looks slick, like a living tank. And even Mauler isn't half bad. Textures would definitely have to carry here but there is some potential at least.
Popsicle-Types
Earthkeeper, Ice Guardian, Lost Wanderer, Wrecker, Giant Slayer, Rogan KayleSpoiler
These start falling apart in L size. Put something like the Earthkeeper next to Avatar of Frost and it's just unconscionable.
Rider-Types
Dreadcharger, Lyrish Knight, Nomad, Silverwind Lancers, Bandit LancerSpoiler
On top of pretty low-poly models and plain riders, this is another category that has issues with communicating the weight of that scale. And they would imply the existence of giant horses.
Torso-Types
Frost Mage, Grove Spirit, Shadow Mage, Twilight HagSpoiler
Pretty fun, I think. Although a bit fragile looking so definitely nothing you'd see on the frontline. The models are kind of plain but compensate with the fluid and mesmerizing animations.
Wormpeople-Types
Cultist Master, Lost Priest, Timeless One, Timeshifter SpiritSpoiler
Those are so cool. Enough details to do some great magic with textures and just a very interesting design to look at in general. Also three very distinct looking models.
Which ones do you think could work well?
For which faction?
What abilities and playstyle could they have?
And how could their theme change entirely with clever texture work?I think there is a lot of potential here, many of these could become some amazing additions to the L and XL roster, leading to even more variety.
SunWu, JarodDempsey, Hrdina_Imperia and 9 others like this -
7 hours ago, JarodDempsey said:
how will evil eye attack work? will it be a continuous ray of damage like wrathgazer (and the art) or a projectile like lost horror? it seems like from the pictures it can hit solid objects so can it hit structures? the descript doesnt say just units but just making sure. if it is a ray will it paralyze? depending on damage ramp up could be fine without, in that case also maybe consider another affin without ramping damage but which paralyzes instead, maybe after a duration like gemeye.
the transform mechanic seems a bit not as useful as it could be, i mean what spells would twilight even need to recharge anyways maybe cluster but that doesnt seem worthwhile, unity, blood thirst, regrowth, etc have plenty of charges, id much rather see something to restore unit charges or maybe reduce unit costs (like a summoning zone) or maybe do some type of infect effect but with twilight bugs and could also effect enemy structures.
It's a beam that continuously deals damage and it can attack anything. There is no CC.
JarodDempsey likes this -
Don't know how you'd arrive at 3 years for 320000 BFP.
Playing generates 400 BFP a day if you do the 45 minutes. If flipping the daily booster it's 480. If you keep it, it's just non-liquid capital, so whatever. That's 800 days or 2y2m if you keep the booster. Or 1y10m if you sell it. That's not accounting for achievements, which also generate BFP. In total there's like, what, over 60 boosters in achievements. 25000 easily.
So alright, somewhere around 1 1/2 to 2 years is still a lot of time. If you don't want to hog chat all day to buy cheap URs and Promos or gamble on boosters you can also just go pure AH. Prices always fluctuate, it's all about knowing the norm. Having an eye on valuable cards (mostly URs and Rs) doesn't take a lot of time once you are can make buy/sell decisions on the fly. With that you can invest like 15-30 minutes a day to update your auctions and scan the AH, which can net you well over 1000 BFP a day extra. Which is like 4 to 8 times as much as you get if you just do the bare minimum of doing your dailies. With that you are now indeed looking at somewhere around half a year to get your 320000. Still a long time but to get literally everything in the game, including vanity pieces, that sounds about right. And that's just as a baseline. Investing more time on the day to scavenge trade chat would increase your daily time investment but significantly reduce the overall time period to generate 320000.
Volin likes this
Patch #400042 - 19 May 2023
in Updates
Posted
I don't really see the exact problem. It's an optional achievement that grants an optional forge skin and boosters worth 900 BFP. The featured maps are hand picked. And they can be difficult.
Why should this exact achievement be made easier? It's a vanity reward. If it's really cool and desirable, shouldn't the effort be worth it? If it isn't you don't have to bother. Why is this reward perceived so differently from Promo Mana Wing or Promo Worldbreaker Gun and their respective achievements?
That aside, there is also the aspect that having players try the various featured community maps on a high difficulty can potentially help highlight the ones that are in a really good state. Thus they could eventually serve as a baseline for official cPvE releases. Having a well functioning Expert-version is very important because when a new cPvE map hits live there will immediately be many seasoned players giving it a try. And if you look at the current Upvotes, thanks to the amazing UI overhaul by the Client/Server Devs, there definitely seem to be some contenders.